Resurrecting 79 Chrysler Sigma

[ChrySig79]

G'day
I'm new to the forum! I'll try not to write too much of a novel here, I've recently acquired a GE 79 Chrysler Sigma (auto). I live in the city, but travel rural vic to a farm some weekends where this car is. I just wanted to reach out for some advice on a couple of questions getting it running better.

Basically it has sat for year(s) in a farm paddock. I managed to get started and into a shed I can work on it easier. I'm in no means a mechanic, but I can pick things up well and really just want to 'have a go'. It's just going to be used around a farm.

I really like this car! I couldn't believe it was RWD and I'm really determined to get this thing running well.
So far I've been reading up a lot on the forum, and have picked up a Gregorys manual for cheap on ebay.

Here is a pic of the engine bay after I got it into the shed. It was running like an absolute pig, maybe even on 2 cylinders but surprisingly it did start and encouraged me to work on it more.


As I only get to work on it a few hours at a time when I'm there, I'm trying to do the most 'productive' things to get it going and check it before stripping it down or pulling it apart.

So far I've just given it a clean and checked the basics. Leads are good, I'll replace the plugs but the part I'm not sure about is where some of the hoses go. Many them needed replacing badly, some even spontaneously combusting when I touched them

Here is the engine bay now


After cleaning the spark plugs and dizzy, I did get it started and running on 4 cylinders for a short period. During this time, it would hesitate badly on acceleration and would only really idle nicely. This brings me to a couple of questions about the hoses. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I couldn't find any reference that stood out in the Gregorys on the hose locations.

If anyone can help me out on these would be great:

1. Is there a hose missing from the red circle? If so where does it go?
2. The purple arrow is a hose that when I pulled on it, it was like I pulled out the connector (spigot) and not even sure if this is a proper hose (it led nowhere as per the pic) so I pushed it back in. Looking back at the picture, I noticed the hose potentially missing from the red circle. Do these connect to eachother?

I could only use my iPad for pics, so I couldn't get the camera to the side of the carby to view this weird hose entry. Think of a T-Piece hose connector, but instead an 'I' piece that would join 2 together. This is what I pulled out with the hose, and 'plugs' back into the carby underneath the the butterfly assembly


3. Can you let me know which hose connects to this spigot?


I checked on the block as best as I could for a stamp, but still unsure what model engine this is. Can anyone confirm what engine this is just by the pics? For some reason I thought it was 1.8L, but the spark plugs were BP6ES that made me think it was a 2L as per the Gregorys

Anyway sorry if this was painful long post.. I also uploaded a couple of vids of its current running condition. Bear in mind, I'm yet to do some more fault finding and checking which of the cylinders is not firing now. I read some tips and parts of the Gregorys with things like pulling out leads 1 by 1 to find the problem cylinder and checking compression etc. that I'll do next time I'm there. Also after reading the forum I'll check the distrubuter vacuum diaphram and others as I learn about them considering the hoses were in such bad shape.

If anyone has any advice, or can tell from my videos a few things I can concentrate on to get it running smoothly would be great. At the moment, the hose that was the worst I replaced sitting on top of the cold air intake I plugged into the spigot shown in question 3 which I'm faily certain is wrong I had no idea where it went, but knew it needed to go somewhere. So you may need to put up with a bit of ignorance from me sorry!

Link to album: http://s763.photobucket.com/user/sigma1979/library/

Video1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0paocOSYST0
Video2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN7oa-ptVW8

Cheers !

[InsaneTD]

The one in the bottom picture is a vacuum line, not sure what one though. Can't say much else about the hoses but I will say you have done a good job cleaning it up.

[geezer101]

Hi ChrySig79, welcome aboard. The vacuum can on the carby is the actuator for the secondary. There is (or should be) a small 90 degree angle vac hose that goes into that inlet on the vacuum actuator and into the back of the carby (you can't miss it - its less than 5 cm away). Before hooking it up check that the secondary actuator is still good by putting a longer vac hose onto it and sucking the air out of it. If you can draw air continuously from it, it's stuffed. Without it the engine will be way down on power and the air leaking into it will mess with your idle. As for the other vacuum hose barb, block it off with something until you find out where it's meant to be hooked up to. The air being drawn into it will also screw up how the engine's running.

[ChrySig79]

Hey thanks InsaneTD & geezer101 for the speedy replies!

I've been reading up more in the Gregorys in emmission control and the correct carb description (I was looking at the wrong one ) and its much clearer to me now. Here is a good pic of your description geezer101, thanks I'll definitely check its operation as you described. There isn't a barb on the carby, unless it was pulled off with the hose it has a small metal pipe that I pushed back into carby after wondering why it was a spare hose (it wasnt connected to the secondary)


No idea why that hose was not connected so thats a good start haha

Now I only have 2 more questions (forgive my noobness) about the hoses maybe someone with the same engine can point out to me


1. The Thermal Vacuum Valve hose, I read in the Gregorys this is connected from the carb to thermal valve. Is this connected to the red circled picture (question 3 in first post above)? as this is where I have connected the Vacuum Motor hose. I left the Thermal Vacuum Valve it was not connected with any hose and was really dirty (clean now) so I'm not sure if this needs to connect to the Q.3 picture red circle?

2. The Vacuum Motor hose I'm not sure where this is connected.. I can't find and reference to its connection in the Gregorys other than its function, and to disconnect the motor hose. Not its destination...


So I understand the vacuum motor and Thermal Vacuum Valve both need vacuum from somewhere. There was 1 spare barb that now has the vacuum motor attached..

If anyone can tell me where the Thermal Vacuum Valve hose connects to I'll install one, and also confirm where the Vacuum Motor hose goes to would be great!

Edit: As I am only guessing at this stage I would need to connect the vacuum motor to the EGR valve? I'll need to look closer. If that's the case then I'd only be guessing again about the thermal vacuum valve. I read this is to release vacuum pressure when the engine is cold but still not sure which is the correct hose barb for this...

Thanks again for the replies
Cheers

[InsaneTD]

From memory at least one hose has a T-piece in it, but I can't remember what one(s). I've got a workshop manual I can look at tomorrow. The thermo one isn't very important. It doesn't effect the way the car runs at all, unless it's leaking.

[ChrySig79]

Awesome thanks TD, even beat my edit on my own post haha

It did have a T-piece connected but it was from the charcoal cannister, and then a hose ran to a broken vacuum gauge on the dash. So I used the hose that ran to the cabin to renew some of the broken or missing hoses around. I do remember clearly I removed this T piece you can see in the below pic. The hose on the right is going to the charcoal cannister, the hose going up to the left was the one I removed that was going to the cabin.



Now its just connected directly from the charcoal cannister the original barb it was T-pieced from.

Thanks again for the speedy reply

[DriveBy]

Welcome and good to see you not only want to save a sig but have a go yourself, admirable.

[tubby]

Astron 80 (printed on the rocker cover) = 2l

[ChrySig79]

Hey thanks DriveBy!! Cheers I'm definitely keen to spring some life back in the car even if it does cost some coin. Plus I'm intrigued at the whole community (ie. this forum) surrounding these model/circa year cars

Astron 80 (printed on the rocker cover) = 2l

Thanks mate... Haha I was hoping it was 2L maybe I didnt scrub hard enough on the block to reveal the stamp but I had a good look.. Thanks for confirming.

I might go there Sunday, reading up some more I'm understanding more of it's operation (or possibly bs emission control I probably don't need) and I'll be checking the vacuum actuated valves etc. it's clear the secondary valve on the carby was disconnected which is going to make a massive difference. I guess where I'm confused is the Gregorys refers the Vacuum Thermal Valve to connect to the carby, where in operation I thought it would connect to the EGR Valve.. Or if the EGR Valve is to be connected to the vacuum motor but its not referenced there . I'll be very surprised if any of the vacuum actuators are still functioning anyway. I'll post the results ;)

Cheers for the replies it's been an awesome help!

[camB]

On mine the vacuum hose that is poking up between your fuel pump and the carb is the one that is attached to my (non-functioning) Thermal Vacuum Valve. That's the thing that opens or closes the flap in the end of the air filter/intake, yes? Anyway, mine's always open.
Mine has a few non-functioning vacuum things though... I just make sure they're all attached to something.
However the direct carb - secondary link obviously works.
I suspect the culprit on mine is the little doova at the very bottom front of the carb, right down from the fuel intake. I think it's a little diaphragm but it's seized.

I'll be doing a bit of work on the car today so I'll photograph what's going on with mine.

[geezer101]

On mine the vacuum hose that is poking up between your fuel pump and the carb is the one that is attached to my (non-functioning) Thermal Vacuum Valve.

If you're referring to the vacuum hose that is between the carby and the inlet side of the head, that hose is supposed to be attached to a vacuum barb on the rocker cover (should be almost directly below where the throttle cable passes over the rocker cover). It does the (hopeless) job of drawing some vapour from the rocker cover and returning it to the inlet air/fuel charge at the base of the carby. And I've yet to see any car with the thermal vacuum valve connected (or even still attached to) a carby...

[ChrySig79]

On mine the vacuum hose that is poking up between your fuel pump and the carb is the one that is attached to my (non-functioning) Thermal Vacuum Valve.

If you're referring to the vacuum hose that is between the carby and the inlet side of the head, that hose is supposed to be attached to a vacuum barb on the rocker cover (should be almost directly below where the throttle cable passes over the rocker cover). It does the (hopeless) job of drawing some vapour from the rocker cover and returning it to the inlet air/fuel charge at the base of the carby. And I've yet to see any car with the thermal vacuum valve connected (or even still attached to) a carby...

You can see this here in this pic:
There is a barb just under the accelerator cable that connects to the base of the carby


You can see it a bit clearer here:


I'm pretty certain my broken hose from the vacuum motor will be going to the EGR valve. In my pics I can see the outlet but not where the end of the hose goes so I'm tipping it had deteriorated. Then I'm fairly sure the spare barb on the carby was for connecting to the TVV barb under the air filter assembly.

>>Edit:: I found it zooming in on pics

To the left of the bottom blue dot is the broken hose to connect to the vacuum motor. So the 'spare barb' was for the TVV afterall.. Thanks me lol

It will be next weekend before I go there again, but I'll take some pics and match all the hoses with dots and post back here

Cheers

[geezer101]

Quick tip for getting a filthy engine clean - use this You can pick it up from supermarkets in the cleaning aisle. About $3 a can and really gets gets the gunk off - spray it on and break it up with a brush, then hose it off . Safe enough to spray on your hands and not cause any grief (but make sure its the NON caustic oven cleaner before buying it) Happy cleaning!

[ChrySig79]

I'm back!
Ok so after connecting the secondary vacuum line it certainly did run better. I also changed the oil+filter and fuel filter while I was there on Sunday amongst the rain.

But it still runs like a bag of bones... Didn't get video this time, but its still missing and hesitating on acceleration. It only idled well for a few moments before chugging, possibly missing and idling so low it wanted to stall. I'm starting to lean toward the fuel mixture, or the carb itself..

Anyway so since I've been spending a ton of time searching the forum for pictures and info. Now about the hoses, I now know the vacuum motor connects to the TVV that then goes to the carb. I didn't see the 2 barbs on the air cleaner assembly when I was first checking this out. So even after connecting these, I still don't have suction coming from the air cleaner spout, no vacuum going to the vacuum motor or TVV, and seem to hear a clear sucking noise coming from elsewhere.

So I kept reading, and came across this thread:
http://www.sigma-galant.com/viewtopic.p ... lex#p90433

And saw this pic...


Compared to my pic....


Does it appear I have some 'bits' missing from the carb?

It looks like I have a hose missing from the round thing buldging from the front-right of the carb, and something next to the butterfly seems to be missing completely in my pic? In the pic above you can see where the 2 screws would go. I definitely have the air cleaner to carb gasket/seal missing and I'm wondering if someone has pinched stuff of the car while it was sitting before I got it..

Can anyone tell me the basics I can run, and what I can plug up on my pictures? Or if those components missing are critical to running well?

It cant handle any load, although it seems to rev high well (above 4K) when I was cleaning out the carby with some cleaner while holding revs around 3-4K it was okay then which led me to think maybe it could be a fuel mixture problem, or the carby itself. I've got some starter spray to spray around looking for vacuum leaks (and Mr. Muscle for cleaning the rest of the engine ). But if I have the air cleaner assembly off with the carby open, I should be able to idle and rev the engine without problems correct?

I'm yet to check the timing & compression, but It was just alarming to see pictures that looked alot like the same carby as mine with 'extra' pieces on there I seem to be missing so I thought I best check this out before looking elsewhere

Any advice here would be great

[geezer101]

Does it appear I have some 'bits' missing from the carb?

The 'missing' item you're talking about is that flat, roundish vacuum actuator by the auto choke assembly? That is the altitude compensator ( ) which assists the throttle while driving in areas above sea level - hills, mountains etc. This thing is not an option on your carby as there would have been a small vacuum gallery drilled in between the threaded holes where the altitude compensator would've bolted up. To me it sounds like the primary jet is blocked or debris in the fuel pick up. Try 'starving' the blockage out by revving the engine and cupping a hand over the carby throat to block off air entering it. The sudden jump in internal vacuum might be enough to purge out whatever crap is down in there. General rule of thumb - poor acceleration from a standing start is the accelerator enrichment jet (either blocked or the pump diaphragms have perished), no low down power is a primary blockage and no mid and top end is usually means the secondary vacuum actuator is toast. And glad you liked the Mr Muscle trick, it strips off most gunk without much of a fight.

[ChrySig79]

Hey thanks heaps for the replies Geezer really appreciate it.

I'll try this next time I'm there and see how I go. Some extra notes: looking at the carby from the front of the car, there is a butterfly on the right throat but not on the left.

If the engine is off, I poked my finger to open the right butterfly and saw fuel squirt by actuating the throttle. I can't see any fuel squirting on the left side.
With the engine running, the right butterfly was wide open and if I closed it with my finger or even started closing it slowly the engine stalled immediately.

I'll see how I go with the starving trick and go from there


@ Altitude Compensator indeed!

Cheers

[A112H]

This pic makes me un impressed with your oven cleaner choice

[geezer101]

This pic makes me un impressed with your oven cleaner choice

You see an 'after' picture in there? (and my pc is desperately trying to spell correct that...)

If the engine is off, I poked my finger to open the right butterfly and saw fuel squirt by actuating the throttle. I can't see any fuel squirting on the left side.
With the engine running, the right butterfly was wide open and if I closed it with my finger or even started closing it slowly the engine stalled immediately.

The squirt of fuel you saw when you pumped the throttle is the accelerator enrichment jet doing it's funky thing (this means all good here ) The 'butterfly' you're looking at on top is the automatic choke butterfly. This should be nearly fully closed when the engine's cold (this is located on the primary throat side of the carby) and will gradually fully open once the engine has reached its operating temperature. Closing it off manually once the engine's hot will starve it out and the engine will try its best to stall. The other throat without the butterfly (the butterfly is in the lower half of the carby) is the secondary. Its job is to supply fuel at mid to full open throttle. Carbies are wily beasts and can be daunting to overhaul or repair for noobs as an incorrect adjustment on any of the screws can throw it out and turn a car into an unforgiving gutless donkey that won't idle or rev. Hit search on here to get advice and tips on the Mikuni/Solex carby http://www.sigma-galant.com/search.php and have a google at info on stripping and rebuilding the Mikuni/Solex.

[ChrySig79]

This pic makes me un impressed with your oven cleaner choice

Ouch! that was a pic from when I very first opened the bonnet, yes before cleaning! I think there was literally even chicken shit in there from the farm haha. But the degreaser/soap did not work nearly as well as the mr. muscle (especially over the intake manifold) I'll need to post some more after pics up for your assurance

And thanks again Geezer, I am certainly a noob but everything you have said completely makes sense. In the past I've searched a ton on the forum about the carb and learned not to touch any of the adjustment screws. I guess I'm keen looking for anything standing out as I have had it running well to an extent, so I'll have a few more trial and error days before considering doing something like pulling apart the carb for inspection/overhaul

Cheers

[ChrySig79]

Howdy !

Hey thanks heaps Geezer for these tips

Try 'starving' the blockage out by revving the engine and cupping a hand over the carby throat to block off air entering it. The sudden jump in internal vacuum might be enough to purge out whatever crap is down in there. General rule of thumb - poor acceleration from a standing start is the accelerator enrichment jet (either blocked or the pump diaphragms have perished), no low down power is a primary blockage and no mid and top end is usually means the secondary vacuum actuator is toast.

I tried this and it made a huge difference!!!
The pickup in the dizzy was also pretty gunked up. After a good clean the Sigma now runs on all 4 cylinders, no smoke, and seems to be running well !!

The only issue now is (most often when its a bit cold) if you give the throttle a quick stab under load (in gear) it will hesitate or miss for a moment before picking up. If you apply the throttle gradually its no problem. After warming it up, I took it for a drive and it went upto 100km/h no worries. Kick down was all working well and after its all warmed up it wasn't missing or hesitating at all

Reading some topics searching in the forum, I saw some had fixed this by re-gapping the points in dizzy? I'll look at this next time I'm there. Edit>> Also I'm yet to do a really good inspection if there's any vacuum leaks that could be causing this. There really isnt much suction from the carby throat


Thanks again for these suggestions, I've really come along way from when I originally got it!! Next time I'm there I'll take another video there is such a huge improvement it's awesome!

Cheers

[geezer101]

Ah, you are ready for the next step in engine maintenance - ignition tuning. Gapping the points with feeler gauges will give you a 'base' tune but is a really hit and miss affair. The adjustment of points affects the dwell angle. The astron will run with anything between 35 to 55 degrees dwell angle. Anything outside of that and it will not fire (which means you can't check the points with a dwell meter anyway). In my experience with the 4G52 will run at it's optimal with these settings - 38 to 40 degrees dwell angle, plugs regapped to .85 to .9 mm and bump up the ignition timing advance (this will depend on the distributor vac advance working properly as well). Get your hands on a dwell meter and have a google of how to use one. If you're rocking the old school points ignition, this will be one of the best investments you can make.