W58 Supra 5 speed into Sigma Turbo & Hilux diff discussion

[TR11KY]

PRIOR UPDATE:
Let me just say things havn't gone like i'd expected.



the spigot bearing of death! I have been goin at this bearing over a week now! Everything is ready to go in, just gotta remove and replace this bearing with the supra match.

Ive tried:

Home made puller - BO BOM
pack with grease and hydraulically hammer it out - BO BOM
Pack with paper and hydraulically hammer it out - BO BOM
Snap on wind out bearing puller - BO BOM (snapped the mechanics tool! ARGH!)
Slide hammer bearing puller - BO BOM


None of these have moved this incessant pain in the proverbial. Not even half a measely millimeter! So without any further adoo its off to Gibson Driveshafts where i'll remove the flywheel, then switch the bearings with a press, then put the box in and finally get the tailshaft modified...All this was while moving a 4 bedroom house! ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!



UPDATE:
After doing my head in i took the flywheel off to get it machined, press the bearing out and re install. Once the flywheel was removed the bearing was an easy tap out the back and it revealed something i hadnt noticed before. A STEP. The flywheel has a step on the clutch side to prevent the bearing pulling out. Its not an abvious one, and hence i didnt expect it.
Anyway after all that pain the flywheel got machined, ($40) and i got a new standard duty exedy clutch cover ($65) to replace my existing one. I was going to uprate to heavy duty but decided for now i want the clutch to be the weakest point. Until i do the diff and change turbo etc it should be fine. It was holding before so i expect no issues until i tune on...
First Choice Brake & Clutch here in Cardiff on Mitchell Road are my main men for clutch gear, i assure you they are the cheapest and the best. They supply most of the hunter area so if your up here just go straight there.

Here's the flywheel done



Ive been using a kind mechanic near gibsons shop to do the flywheel work and mock up the box as i dont have rattle gun and air compressor. Done now so ive towed her home and will be handing him a carton for his help.


TAILSHAFT
After plenty of chat and pricing out its smarter to ago a whole new tailshaft. 1370mm long from seal to diff, was the measurement btw.
I could have had my existing one lopped and supra / toyota weld & slip yokes, plus uni fitted and then balanced for $371.

OR a new shaft for $450
includes new 3" shaft, new Supra / Toyota yokes front and rear with the bigger uni's and the rear yoke connection to the diff is made to suit the borg warner diff.

WHY??? Coz later when i install my hilux diff it will only be a matter of swapping the yoke that connects to the diff, and having it shortended if need be. Much cheaper and i end up witha top quality shaft from the get go, not a chopped n changed one.The extra $80 is well worth it IMO.

[turbogj260]

just got my sigma on the road this week after getting the shaft made. Runs alright with the supra 5 and the 4.11 LSD hilux diff. 1st gear is real fun when u give it stick

[TR11KY]

PART # TYD 034U is the supra disc with diameter of 212mm (3mm less than sigma). Im just gald theres a supra one to suit my diameter, or this coulda got nasty...
Here it is

Sorry if you've already mentioned but, how much did that cost and also how much clamp pressure is the clutch suppost to have?

I honestly didnt ask him. Its heavier duty than standard sigma clutches but not over top he said. It was holding mine already so i kept it until my diff goes in to make it my deliberate weak spot.

The heavy duty Exedy kit recommended for sigmas with this kind of power and above is R6030N
Pressure Cover Plate - MBC510 - $???
Supra Clutch Disc to suit - TYD034U -$63

[TR11KY]

just got my sigma on the road this week after getting the shaft made. Runs alright with the supra 5 and the 4.11 LSD hilux diff. 1st gear is real fun when u give it stick

you bastard, im so jealous!!!

No hilux diff for me for a little while yet. Probably later this year. Im afraid the new daily is soaking the hip pocket well...(R34 GTT 4 door )





UPDATE:
She's home safe and i get the tailshaft tomorrow arvo. $450 it cost and should bolt straight in.

Gotta buy some plate to make the gearbox mount once i get the box in this weekend. Im going to bolt it in mocked up then weld it to the cross member. Ive also gotta make up some clips to hold the thrust carrier in place as ive lost the little buggers!!! ARGH!!! no one sells or has em!

[TR11KY]

UPDATE

im afraid the tailshaft didnt get done before the weekend and the way it played out i didnt even get the chance to get in the shed anyway.
here she is patiently awaiting some tlc among the list of everything else to do...LOL


The new tailshaft looks sweet! Very solid, certainly lookin up for the job! Done by gibsons driveshafts here in Edgeworth (just outside Newcastle). These guys have been doing driveshafts since forever...

[TR11KY]

Had some drama's with my dellow bellhousing. On trying to fit it up i found they'd sent me the wideblock housing. The receipt said narrow, the order said narrow and everything said narrow on my end. However as i trusted and foolishly proceeded i didnt find it until the last minute. Sheepishly i put it back down and rang dellow to sort it out.

Some 6 weeks later here we go.
Here's the proper bellhousing for the conversion.

The bellhousing for narrow block came back and sure enough more headaches in trying to put it all together. The cross shaft that holds and pushes the clutch mechanism wouldnt fit as the holes had been drilled out at 21.5mm but not reamed to 22mm. So when i went to fit the brass bushings no go...
$100 later from my machine shop mate and i get her back in the morning. Try again over the next two weeks.


As it turned out later theres something else missing from it thats pretty critical...



got stuck in on the weekend as my visit with son got swapped around so i had the free time.
The box back together with new bell housing (correct one)



in place fitup
This being the longer of the supra boxes as far as gearstick location proved to cause some minor difficulties. Unfortunate but none the less achievable.

Box in and as you can see there's nothin in it as far as the tunnell. Packed full you might say.

Here you can see the alignment of the gearbox mount and factory crossmember. Im now in the process of making up a plate to adapt and weld to the crossmember.

Once its done i can bolt it in, fit the tailshaft and get to the engine bay finals and interior tidy ups. Now to find a shop that can help me out...

I found a shop locally in edgeworth to do the job of the custom gearbox crossmember. JC sheetmetal were the guys i saw. Gave them a plate marked up and holes pre drilled with instructions on how and what i wanted it to do.


12 hours and $50 later i was very happy!!!! here's why.




Took it home gave a it a coat of paint before its ready to fit up


Now that i had the mount i got stuck into the final fitup. Here it is in place, reverse lighst wired in, earth wire in place and speedo cable connected.





tailshaft in place. Fit perfectly with a nice snug fit and looks like its meant to be there. Money well spent as later all i have to do is change the rear cradle and keep the shaft yokes etc all intact.



clutch cable issue
Seems in the haste to get me the right bellhousing out they forgot something. A clutch cable mount. UH OH!!!!! Big problem considering the box is in, and i have a hill climb in a matter of weeks to attend! NOT HAPPY JAN! After my extra 10deg of rotation of the shaft here's the cable location. Im now at the start of the adjustment too btw.


So not to be out done i fashioned a bracket up. The bracket to fit from the bellhousing bolt and wrap around to the engine block and bolt into the same thread from the other end.

The heat resistant coverplate also wraps around it and yep once i fitted it up and tested, she works perfectly. With a puck clutch or something heavy im not sure it would but for now im sweet. Im going to keep my eye on it and see how it goes. If it doesnt work i'll have to try something heavier duty.

The last of the stuff to do was to refit the console and the gearstick. I chopped up the old handle and removed the whole flex part up to the old knob. Bought a new cheapy and refit it to the remaining shaft (5" long as opposed to 12"+ long). Its now got a nice short throw and sits pretty well in the original leather sock. Happy as larry!

Had i used the box with the 1" more forward stick position (the 20" box as previously discussed) it would have fit better in this regard but its ok for me most wouldnt pick it. Mine didnt come with a rubber boot to seal up against the tunnel so i have to find one now, remove and refit the console once i have one fitted to ensure i dont cop fume ingress.

pic of the completed and refitted dash console. Much better than its prior purple look. Slowly but surely the purple is disappearing.


look no stands! Finally after along time coming she's down getting charged and some fuel, before the test drive! I stopped here for the day and had a beer to appreciate my achievements, then chilled out with the family for the evening.


You better believe it got the best of me a few hours later and i started her and took her for a blap! Clutch is featherweight and perfect! Gears are tight but sweet and the old girl runs like never before. Only problem now is the howel of the diff is harder to ignore! HAHAHA Check the oil and refill i think.

[TR11KY]

admin feel free to tutorial the thread if you like it is done for want of a few small items.

end cost would be in the order of $2,500 i think with items like the tailshaft easily racking it up...

Big thanks to:

dellow engineering
gibson driveshafts - edgeworth
small machining specialists - cameron park
jc sheetmetal - edgeworth
tony's auto's - edgeworth
auto pro - edgeworth

Members of Sigma galant and in particular:
EVO-00X, DRSGMA, SI66MA (shad the man), turbosigma, TurboGJ260, stealth, Sideshow and 76galantv6


Next to convert to hilux diff.

[turbogj260]

nice going TR11KY! Looks the goods. Bit upset about ur bellhousing though i didnt have n e dramas with Dellow Automotive and the clutch cable mount??? Did u ring them at all and tell them that its missing???

[TR11KY]

i honestly havnt decided yet. Its been such a pain in the ass... But i know from the many before me that dellow a re a reliable bunch i guess they just dropped the ball with mine.

The $100 sting for remaing the arm mount holes was the one that hurt the most. It was a real prick for the machinist to get right yet at dellow it would have been super easy.

UPDATE
Last nights test drive showed me a few things. 1 clutch is slipping. Not sure why but only slipping when it starts to get on boost. Maybe once it beds in???

Its hard to check coz of the slippy clutch but it did vibrate once on torquing up indicating the box is hitting something under load so i'll have to check it out. Then again it used to do it before from hitting the stainless heat sheild around the turbo. I'll test some more and when it comes out i'll check the tunnell etc.

Whys it coming back out? The friggen thrust bearing is gone. Can hear it carrying on so that'll have to come out.

There is some vibration under load that doesnt vary with speed but dissapears once i put my foot on the clutch. making me wonder if somethings out of balance, or alignment???


Consequently im now considering a heavier clutch and obviously a new thrust bearing & carrier.

[turbogj260]

yeah i got a bit of a vibration with my car same as u described. Think it might b the input shaft bearing in the box... As for clutch mines a 950kg pressure plate with 6pk solid brass button. good for 250rwkw (thats what gavin at sa clutch made it to) no slippage only the rear tyres ;)

[TR11KY]

The only other thing i can think of is the box may be due for rebuild? Its been sitting for a long time and even longer with sideshow, so perhaps a strip down is required. Though im certain he said itd been done already.

The oil i dropped out was clean so to speak but a few shavings caught on the magnet for sure.


UPDATE

took it for another test last night and the clutch is certainly not handling the power at all. It should have been fine as it was same as the one that came out. However that said the one that came out was super heavy on the pedal feel, but the one in it now is so light weight granny could push it.

The thrust bearings definately shot but making more noise when your driving, so im wondering if its riding??? ive tried various adjustments without luck.

back in the shed im ripping it out and going for a heavier clutch, new thrust carrier and bearing and make a better cable mount.

The thread continues.



Oh and i updated some more on the old tp efi thread. The engine bay tidy ups have started and legality measures are being planned.
http://www.sigma-galant.com/viewtopic.p ... 0&start=30

[TR11KY]

just an exedy mate. Stock replacement for sigma clutch but was heavier duty. The old one held its ground beautifully so i wanted to retain it and leave a deliberate weak spot in the drivetrain as the clutch. But not this bloody weak!

Soon as it comes on boost its slipping.

Oh well. I'll call first choice up here in cardiff and see what they can get in for me.

[TR11KY]

turbogj and others who've done it, what year model and type of hilux was the diff out of? Or were all diffs the same from early 90's to now?

which one shoudl i be looking for???

[turbogj260]

mine was out of a 92 model hilux 2wd diff. Im "guessing" all the 2wd diff housings are the same. I cant remember the exact measurements of the housing but i know it was overall 8mm longer so 4mm either side is stuff all BUT this was basing it on my GJ siggy diff. Im not too sure on the specs of a GH diff? I got the 4.11 LSD center out of a 4WD hilux (centers are the same just the 4X4 axles are 6 stud and the hubs are way 2 big to play around with) but if ur going down this path for a LSD get it torqued up mine slips like mad! Next thing to be done on the Gj just CBF at the moment. Its not 2 bad when u do a skid just sometimes pops the single legger

[TR11KY]

thanks man i'll check it out. i have a mate who's doorslamming and drag prepping a hilux so theres a diff i can grab easily. Anything you can tell me show me or pictures etc would be a huge help coz im seriously considering starting the diff upgrade in november after a short stint driving her to enjoy. I have to go to WSID, and run the king edward park hillclimb (oct long weekend) but after that its back in the shed for diff and a fuel system upgrade to 044 and higher pressure fittings that go with it.

pm me mate n i'll drop you my email???

[TR11KY]

Ive found my issue with the clutch!

Took the box out last thursday and visited the Clutch guys again. Took in the old and the new to compare. We checked:
-Thickness of clutch disc (sigma is 0.2mm thicker)
-Standard sigma cover kg loading 375kg
-Exedy sigma cover loading 425kg

Then found the old clutch wasnt actually exedy. It was a custom rebuilt one. Took a little to pick it but the rivets are different and the diaphram is much heavier. The guage of the fingers is more than double. By their guesstimate its somewhere in the order of 750kg to 900kg. For an organic clutch its pretty impressive without hitting twin or button type clutches. No wonder it was so heavy before...

So the old clutch goes back in with the new disc.

The throw out bearing and carrier issue is also being sorted. A new bearing bought and refitted today once they resleeve the carrier to 35.03mm. The problem was simple, when it was fully retracted the bearing sat nicely and had very little freeplay. But the further forward it came the more freeplay it got. In its adjusted free standing position it had enough freeplay to creat the rattle and keep the bearing spinning.

MY ADVICE TO ANYONE REUSING THE SIGMA CARRIER
from the get go have it sleeved to 35.03mm as it will totally remove the inner step.

So i pick up the carrier today and she goes back together possibly tonight. King endward park hill climb looks a goer if all goes well!

[TR11KY]

Clutch and box went back in without hassle at all. Took some getting right as far as adjustment but its perfect! The clutch is heavy as always and either in or out, but no slipping under load. Its smooth and quiet now while driving and gears feel good too.

The company that machined and sleeved the throw out did a brilliant job for only $70 so i was happy. Had to use someone closer to town rather than my usual guy but they didnt let me down.

The resulting throwout carrier and bearing after done.



Here's a couple of pics as we reinstalled.
Flywheel ready to go.

Clutch bolted back in.



Box went in fine, i also found the correct cover for the front of the bellhousing so it got fitted. Had to put a plate on the other side of the gearbox mount where the factory rubber mount and bolts are, to prevent damage to the rubber mount blocks. All good now...

The tunell does have a rub mark on the passenger side and it seems the box touches a a fraction in one spot. Other than the that the tight squeeze made it in and out and in again fine.

I have yet to resolve the issue of the rubber boot over the gearstick though. I have to find one that will seal the hole nicely and allow stick movement as normal.


I was providing updates in the tutorial thread for engine bay stuff but i'll put these up here now. The alloy washer bottle, stainless overflow and stainless catch can all now installed and working.



Next its time to make an airbox in the corner area and plumb back the catch can, move the bov into there and seal out the filter for legal purposes.

[TR11KY]

After running it well n hard at the hillclimb im happy to report the gearbox is holding and performing beautifully!

No probs at all beyond the vibration from the rub spot i mentioned. Will fix that soon...


Tutorial this thread if you like Admin.

[BOOTS]

Thankyou TR11KY your post will save me so much time with my GE DOHC 4G63/w58 project. i have most of my parts except a diff, i was thinking a 9" but you seem pretty keen on the hilux conversion- is it a better option or just an easeir fit?

[TR11KY]

boots i chose the hilux coz its lighter than many other diffs, has a huge variance in diff ratios and bolts up to the supra gearbox and unis setup super easy.

Oh and did i mention on the sigma the hilux diff is going to add 20-40mm width in the rear which should bring the rear width up to almost equal the front???

The hilux diff i should have before xmas for sure so this thread will push on with the diff conversion info only.

[turbogj260]

jees its been a while since ive looked at those photos of the gearbox conversion Tr11ky. U got ur hilux diff in it yet? Be prepared mate, the standard LSD's are dog shit no good for 200+ RRKW, ive stuffed 2 clutch pack LSD's one from a used surf and a new lsd carrier form a 09 sr5. Detrot locker in it now and loves it Just a pre warning, dont go spend money on standard toyota LSD centers...

[TR11KY]

cheers turbogj i did find that out recently. i can take the lsd in for resetting regularly but im likfe wtf no thanks. diff centre i've chosen is tru trak mate. locker without the clunk n noise of the detroit they tell me.

what ratio are you running? i was planning on sitting around 3.5:1 as the factory siggy t was 3.42:1 but im not set on that yet.

Did you have any isses with ratios and hows your crown wheel n pinion holding up? the way i hear it these thinsg are more likely to fail from the pinion slop?

[turbogj260]

yeah they use the spherical gearing inside the center to obtain the LSD feature as apposed to "dog teeth" like the detroit. Lol the clunking noise dosnt happen all that often after you get use to driving it around corners, but it does give a nice thud when u give it the beans. Running 4.11 final drive. Havent hand any issues with the center at all hey and trust me this thing gets the shit flogged out of the ass end every time t hits the streets, thats what it was built 4. Fitted up a set of kuhmo semi sliks all round now, suppresses some of the wheel spin when they are warm as street tyres just dont cut it 4 traction.

[TR11KY]

4.11 is much higher than i expected mate. how far off is ya speedo

i will be sure to let you all know how the tru track goes, i'm defo keen to go for the final ratio 3.5:1 or as close as possible.

[C_Fernance]

Have been mixing and matching parts to get a working speedo in my GH Sigma with a Supra box, and not having a cable supplied or the funds to buy a new one from Dellow, etc I have been looking for a cheap alternative.

Was originally looking at trying a Scorp auto cable. This fitted under the dash, and screwed onto the box, but the inner cable was different and wouldn't engage.

After looking at a bunch of Jap manual boxes the internal fitting looked identical to the supra fitting. And sure enough a manual cable into the supra box worked too. Therefore a standard Scorp manual cable should connect straight up, but may have issues due to its length and the connector being on the opposite side of the box. A Galant manual cable would also connect up but would be way too short on it's own.

My other concern was the cable coming out of the box and having a tight bend due to the position of the crossmember. After a bit of research I found many RWD Toyotas have a right angle adapter. A trip to the wreckers and I had an adapter out of an '86 Toyota Corona with an auto. Cost $10 so wasn't really cheap but it won't break the bank either.

The adapter has an aluminium body about 2-3 inches long that stick out about 1-2 inches from the gearbox. I connected it facing towards the front of the car, same as when it was in the Corona. This gave me enough extra length so that I could use the Galant cable straight along side the drivers side of the gearbox, up the firewall, though the hole and onto the back of the dash. The length works out almost perfect, and there is no tight bends trying to fit onto the gearbox.

TL;DR
Use a right angle adapter out of a RWD Toyota such as a Corona, with a standard Galant (manual?) cable.

[turbogj260]

got me all autometer gauges fitted to the car so it was just a matter of fitting a speedo sender (hall effect) from a fwd pulsar witch screws straight in. Then calibrate as per instructions and job done.

[C_Fernance]

That works too. I'm trying to keep everything looking as factory as possible though. Hence i'm still using the standard instrument cluster. Any extra gauges I have are in the glove box so I can hide them easily.

[FUGITIVES]

Updates?

[kenvv]

im running a 4g63 and a w58 in my galant connected to a nissan 720 diff. its running a locker at the moment. this was all setup when i bought the car. im keen to take the locker out one day as it makes it such a pain for daily driving. want an LSD but have to track on down to suit and sus practical ratios....

[FUGITIVES]

welded center you talking about?