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I have been searching around without much luck to find more info about the work done on the rally spec engine in the Lancer 1600 GSR used in the Safari Rally. I have found info about them producing around 126kW @ 7,800rpm, 165Nm @ 7,800rpm, and had a compression ratio of 11:1. Does anyone have more info about the engine used?

126kw = 165-170hp ... supposedly that's about right (officially they claimed 160bhp at the flywheel, I think ?)

They used a 4G32 SOHC with a kit of optional parts ... commonly known as the "C3" kit. These parts were available for purchase from Mitsubishi back in the day - although rarer than rocking horse poo these days of course. IN THEORY you could build your own "works spec" motor ... but I would bet that just bolting all the C3 kit parts together in an engine wouldn't make a car as "good" as the factory team ones ... no doubt they would have had a few extra "tweaks" as well, being meticulously hand built engines !

The Sports Catalogue with the part numbers etc is readily available, A few people on here (inc. myself) have either copies or originals of it ... the catalogues of course don't have the detailed specs of each part necessarily.

As far as I am aware, the engines in the factory cars were not significantly bored &/or stroked (otherwise they would have changed capacity class).

Note : The "GSR" designation is irrelevant to the above - it just means "1600 2 door twin carb". Nothing to do with them being a "rally special" or anything. Joghinder Singh's Safari-winning car was a GSL 4 door)

Ah, good info.
But just curious, does anyone have any info on exactly what was included in the C3 kit? (I've heard it mentioned a few times before).

Dave...

See here ....

http://z9.invisionfree.com/1stGenLancer ... wtopic=614

Unfortunately you have to be logged in for that link to work

Fixed ...











The "basic tune up kit" converts a stock 4G32 to production GSR spec (different distributor etc) then the C1/C2/C3 kits expand on that. Lots of common part numbers between them. I've got a copy of the English version, but there is little extra useful info in it (other than that the C2/C3 kits used 44mm Solexes rather than 40mm in the C1).

Thanks for that

I've got the US (Plymouth Arrow) version too ... which has different part numbers for the same stuff, but also a little more spec information.

I'll scan it when I get a chance ...

What I found in the manual of the Celeste is that the difference between the 4G52 (single carb) and the 4G52GS (twin carb) is that:

- compression ratio: 8.5 - 9.5 (GS)
- exhaust valves of a GS has stellite hardened valve seats
- GS has different valve springs (brown enamelled); 4g32 has blue ones
- camshaft of GS has number 7 marked on the rear end; 4G32 has number 4 (different valve timing diagram)
- crankshaft of the GS is carbonitrated at low temps to increase the resistance to wear and durability (black coloured)
- higher pistons in the GS (can't find details about this tho)

Note: The 4G52 is a 2 liter engine. There is nothing explicit mentioned about the 1.6L engine so these differences could also apply on the 4G32 / 4G32GS...

Note : The "GSR" designation is irrelevant to the above - it just means "1600 2 door twin carb". Nothing to do with them being a "rally special" or anything. Joghinder Singh's Safari-winning car was a GSL 4 door)[/quote]

the C1/C2 kit was for the GSR car ( 2 door, GS 1600, 5 speed). it could be fitted to others if you provided the 1600 parts (block and crank) or the 1600 GSL and you bought the bits from the "tune up kit" at the beginning of that brochure to bring your non GS engine up to spec for kit fitting. The 2 door was the prefered basis of the works rally car's being lighter than the 4 door.

or the 1600 GSL and you bought the bits from the "tune up kit" at the beginning of that brochure to bring your non GS engine up to spec for kit fitting

My interpretation of various Mitsubishi brochures was that the production GSR & GSL had the same spec engine ex factory, and the only difference was 2 vs 4 doors ? Could well be wrong though ......

My point was that the model designation of the "works" cars was pretty irrelevant, as they would have been hand-built from bare shells.

(Actually, Singh's Safari-winning 4-door car wasn't strictly a "works" car - it was locally prepared and entered by him, rather than by the factory in Japan. Obviously had plenty of factory support though !)

nah the GSL is a stock 1600 the GSR is the GS engine (with bigger alternator which is why there is an alt in the Tune up parts for non GS cars) not sure who built the Works cars in Japan, Id assume it was Coltspeed, so Id then also assume as they were more of a kit build that they were GSR's off the production line a bit like the works Holden rally cars of the time? delivered stock then built up? same as works Nissans? cant see why not they had engine and chassis numbers same as any normal production car off the line.... any I have photos of have full GSR spec inside , outside and under the bonnet.

correct on Mr SInghs car it wasnt a works car that first year ('74), it didnt have the full C2 spec....sort of a factory privateer

delivered stock then built up? same as works Nissans?

I suspect more likely to have been handed over as bare shells ?

I've been told that the "works" Stanzas (ie. the Japanese-built cars, not the later locally built ones) didn't actually have chassis numbers, because the shells were pulled off the line and handed over to the rally team before that part of the process ...

Up until last march,I still had in my posession 2 sets of BNIB C2 pistons and rings,a brand new #5 cam,Twin 44mm Solex carbs with factory manifold and air cleaner, a C2 Dizzy and a heap of other works bits (from the days when Mike Bell,Ian Hill and the Gosford Dyno Tune guys ran Lancers.
The ex factory GSR of Mike Bell had 118 RWHP with factory extractors,and picked up a further 8 when fitted with a set that were an exact replica done by Precinct Performance in Gosford.
The LB Lancer that finished 8th in the 1979 Repco Round Australia rally had a C2 built by Gosford Dyno that only lost a few HP during the event.
They ran it in a stae round 2 weeks after the Repco with only a service and tune up prior.
Says a lot for the reliability of a well built C2.

pistorf wrote: The ex factory GSR of Mike Bell had 118 RWHP with factory extractors,and picked up a further 8 when fitted with a set that were an exact replica done by Precinct Performance in Gosford.
Says a lot for the reliability of a well built C2.

so they were works copy extractors? the factory ones are nice
stolen to order I reckon what is anyone going to do with a c2 distrbutor? who'd know the difference? it will show up one day

Yeah Roger
The extractors done by Precinct were an exact copy of the ones that were fitted to the GSR that Mike bought from Bruce Cheeseman. They had a split in one of the primary pipes,and as Precinct was literally over the back fence from Gosford Dyno,the boys ran a set up one night ,swapped them over and found the extra 8 RWHP.
The origionals found their way onto my GA Galant The following night

my 4g32 engine has a C-2 head with genuine No.5 cam, double valve springs, sodium filled exhaust valves.. engine also has +.5mm4g35gs pistons, lightend flywheel, baffled sump, a bigger alternator, twin side 44's on a short manifold (thanks to davetrees) and i made an electronic dizzy with an internal module.. also have a transistor ignitor to boost spark. and i have acouple of sets of extractors but depending on funds with get a mate to build me a custom set with a 2" exhaust
dont know a power figure yet, i havent even started it since i rebuilt it.. should have a figure fairly soon though. i hope..

What Krohny failed to mention about this engine is that it is an almost perfect period correct (Built in 1979) C3 equivalent. Whatever isn't "works C3" parts is either an equivalent part or an upgrade to it. The alternator isn't just the "GS" 45A model, but an Ingrams 70A monster (with a few spare voltage regulators) The starter motor is absolutely massive too. There is a remote filter unit and oil cooler set we haven't put back yet, and we've collected the clutch fan and pulley sets from other mitsus (minus a suitable sized belt yet). The fuel filter is from a Volvo truck, there is an original mitsuba electric pump (with internal filter) and an internal fuel tank fitted as well.

Also just curiously why would the GSL not have a GS engine in it? Wouldn't the model name "GS"-L be a pretty obvious sign??

PS the alt, fan and pulleys can be found on Sirius and astron engines, for those that are looking ;)

Also just curiously why would the GSL not have a GS engine in it? Wouldn't the model name "GS"-L be a pretty obvious sign??
dunno from MEMORY a GSL is a 4 door 5 speed 1600 if you wanted to go fast you bought the GSR 2 door (with GS engine) However before there was a GSR 2 door you could only get a GSL 2 door so without access to the japanese brochures its poss that the early 2 door GSL was a GS engined car (maybe) and the '73 GSL 4 door wasnt or neither was and the GSR was the only GS engined Lancer, Il did the brochure out someday

PS the alt, fan and pulleys can be found on Sirius and astron engines, for those that are looking ;)
Im thinking not the same (might be similar) ,Im pretty sure Ive had both together at some stage.... Ill look and see if I have a photo

If you want a genuine GSR fan assembly, I've got one I doubt I will be using (I prefer electric fans personally).

70A alternator ? Just a baby Seriously, I'd consider that's barely adequate on a rally car. I run a 85A TR(?) Magna internally regulated one, and I reckon that's probably the minimum I would run with (do the math .... for example I'm drawing 50A just for the lights on high beam). I must put a bigger pulley on it sometime though, to slow it down a little ....

Actually the GSR motor I have is a little different to others I have seen .... it's a late model one, I think ? It uses the "wide" head, and has bolts blocking some small holes above the exhaust ports (I think it was a pollution thing in Japan ? It was a 2nd hand import motor back in the 80s). It has a #6 cam in it. Chain drive/roundport. Definitely a GSR motor, as it has the higher compression (marked "32S") pistons. Haven't yet checked out what dizzy it runs. I think it's probably a 77 or 78 Lancer GSR motor ? When I get the spare cash, it will probably become the basis of a "new" motor for the rally car.

The other GSR motor I scored was an early type one, with the "narrow" head. Never got the chance to check it out internally before I sold it, but I suspect it would have had a #2 cam (which has subsequently been reground to a more modern profile which makes more power right through the rev range than a #5 in back-to-back dyno testing in the same motor).

I'll take you up on the fan assembly if you're not using it! - Got Pics?
(maybe not for the rally car, but I still have a 2dr I could use it for!)

No problem Phil. Not sure if it's in one of the boxes of parts in the shed, or still with the car ... I'll have a look. No idea whether the clutch mechanism in it is any good still ... but you're welcome to it !

Which pulley(s) are different ? I haven't even looked at that ..... water pump ?

Alternator Pulley:
80mm (ratio 1.57) - C3
67mm (ratio 1.97) - Standard 4G32

Water Pump Pulley:
132.8mm (ratio 0.92) - C3
112.2mm (ratio 1.09) - Standard 4G32

Fan Belt Circumferential length
833mm - C3
801mm - Standard 4G32
(can anyone verify the standard 4G32 size here to make sure?)

Oh, I also had a look at the pistons in the sports manual and the 4G35 pistons that we have are actually shaped far more like the "SS" design than the "GS"/"S" pistons.

I have those pistOns that you were saying aerospace, is it possible to use those in g32 engines?

Mr Aerospace wrote:Alternator Pulley:
80mm (ratio 1.57) - C3
67mm (ratio 1.97) - Standard 4G32

Water Pump Pulley:
132.8mm (ratio 0.92) - C3
112.2mm (ratio 1.09) - Standard 4G32

Fan Belt Circumferential length
833mm - C3
801mm - Standard 4G32
(can anyone verify the standard 4G32 size here to make sure?)

Thanks for that ... I'll have to measure the GSR pulleys & see what diameter they are.

Fanbelts aren't an issue ... just measure the length you need with a piece of string & buy one that fits

our 35 pistons are in a 32 engine.. just gotta bust out the boring tool.

Mr Aerospace wrote:PS the alt, fan and pulleys can be found on Sirius and astron engines, for those that are looking ;)

what oil cooler adapter you got ? one that goes under the filter or the C2 one? big oil pump? below is C2 water pump pulley (not the one fitted to the engine, shown fitted in the top left) the Alt pulley comes in 2 variations both to suit the Mits 45 amp alternators(45? 55? whatever the GSR one is)

Unfortunately it fits onto the oil filter thread (not the double relief valve C2 part). Also wish I had the C2 oil pump and housing (the pump is 5mm longer than the standard 30mm one and I assume they made a longer pump (same overall shaft length though) and just cut out the standard housing to fit it?).

And yes that's the right Pulley, I just happened to find one when I began hoarding bits a long time ago, I decided to measure it one day, and I was surprised I had one!
Also from the sports manual the alternator is 40A for the GSR and 35A for the others!