Factory side drafts

[A112H]

Anyone know what brand and model the twin side drafts fitted to A53H GS and DOHC GTO's were?

[webby]

My guess would be 40mm Solex carbs, either that or Hitachi SU copies. Don't think anyone used Webers or Dellortos in Japan, not from factory anyway.

[davetrees]

The first-generation "GS" Galants used either twin Aisan HF40D sidedraughts (SU - type) or twin downdraft Solexes .... depending a bit on year & market I think.

The Aisans were generally used on the AIIGS (A52) and the Solexes on the 16LGS (A53), but I have seen photos of 16Ls with both setups. The "GS" was available in both sedan & hardtop versions.

GTO-MR used 40mm Mikuni-Solex sidedraughts ... 40PHH I suspect.

I've got a pair of HF40Ds in the shed if anyone wants them (no manifold though) ....

[A112H]

Thanks for the info guys. I have been told the used the Mikuni-Solex 40PHH but wasn't sure if that was just the GTO or all factory side drafts.
Like these


As I am going for 98% stock and wanting historic rego it will have to be 100% to the unknowing eye I am sure I can squeeze some things through like the GH struts

Do you have a pic of the carbs Dave?
Do they run the same mounts and filters as the Mikuni/Weber/Dellorto?

[A112H]

Cheers Dave, just found the link
http://www.sigma-galant.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8678
Not really the look I am after I am pretty sure with a factory air cleaner I can sneak a pair of Dellortos in there

[davetrees]

The only thing that would have had the PHH carbs would be the GTO-MR ...... nothing else that I am aware of ex-factory ? (The Sports Kit specifies 40PHH for the C1 kit and 44PHH for the C2/C3 .... but they were never a "production" item of course)

Nothing wrong with Mikuni-Solex carbs, and they are still readily available (the Toyota 2TG and 18RG motors ran them) and usually cheaper than Weber & Dellorto. Only downside is jets etc are harder to get locally compared to Weber parts (but readily & cheaply available from the USA or Europe).

Unless you can score a good set of Solexes cheap though, it's probably easier to go the Weber route - you should pick up a good set of matched 40DCOEs for $800 - &900 ..... then be prepared to spend another $300 - $400 on dyno time setting them up properly ..... they'll be a WOFTAM unless you do !

I would probably go Weber before Dellorto .... more parts & more expertise around.

SA Historic rego doesn't require "100% stock standard" anyway, does it (except maybe in theory) ? (My rally car was on SA Historic rego before I bought it - and it has a full roll cage, competition seats, harnesses, etc)

[shelbygto]

mmm try this http://www.japanorder.com/yahoo_auc_det ... e132066093

[davetrees]

Yep - that's the stock AIIGS setup of twin Aisans .... and seriously overpriced at $300-$400 ! Going price out here is $175-$200

[A112H]

Okay, I was going to bid on them, lol About $500 delivered, I think the air cleaner is going to be the killer to find. But I am not sure that is what the A53H GS had fitted. I only have pics in brochures but they look more like the PHH

[shelbygto]

they have been on there before , the start bid should get them

[davetrees]

Okay, I was going to bid on them, lol About $500 delivered, I think the air cleaner is going to be the killer to find. But I am not sure that is what the A53H GS had fitted. I only have pics in brochures but they look more like the PHH

They are what the A52 GS (ie. the 1500) uses. They are not a great carb, and parts for them are pretty much non-existant (eg. SU needles don't fit, so would be a b@stard to tune them properly). If you really want a reasonably good set - with manifold, and probably aircleaner - I know where I can get some. I also have a set (no manifold though) gathering dust in the shed you can have cheap.

The A53 GS (1600) ran twin downdraught Solexes. All the scanned brochures I have show this quite clearly, as does the 4G3x engine workshop manual, and also the FIA homologation papers. I would be interested to see the brochures you have, if they look like PHH carbs ? AFAIK there was no difference in spec between the sedan & hardtop.

[A112H]

Thats what I thought Dave, until I got this brochure.
This pic clearly shows side drafts on a 16L GS engine (sorry for the pic of a pic but my printer/scanner went AWOL in the move)


Doesn't show what they are sadly but they are for sure sidies

My car has no plates but is a factory GS, correct striping and interior, but the stock engine is long gone

[davetrees]

That's got Aisan HF40D sidedraughts on it .... you can see the top of the dashpot on the front carb in the picture, just under the arch of the breather pipe. ( ie. same as the AIIGS setup .... I wonder if the early 16LGS had those carbs, then went to the twin downdraughts the same as the Lancer 1600GSR after a year or 2 once they came out ? Wouldn't surprise me. Or maybe it was just in that particular market ... brochure looks Spanish, by the words ?)

They are definitely not PHH-type carbs though.

If you get your scanner going, I would be really keen to get a hi-res copy of that brochure !

The GS engine itself is nothing overly special .... just 9.5:1 pistons & a #2 cam. Valves are standard 4G32 size. (I've got a spare set of stock size GS pistons of you want them, or Shuggy still has several oversize sets)

[A112H]

If i find the scanner you are more than welcome to some hi-res pics, lol
Cheers for the info Dave, well spotted. I think I will look for some small webers to do the trick, once fitted with a stock tin air cleaner I think they will be fine
The brochure is from Guatemala, 14th March 1972. Printed in Japan for the Spanish market.

[davetrees]

Stick a stock single downdraught & aircleaner on it for rego, then go the twin Webers

[A112H]

Think I will either go the webers or maybe just twin downsies, they seem pretty easy to find. And it is not a performance car anyway, that's what the A112 is for, lol

[davetrees]

The twin downdraughts would be "more correct". Let me know if you have trouble finding a set ... I can probably lay my hands on some pretty easily.

[2Lgalant]

How would a pair of Asian side drafts go on a 1600 ? I was thinking of throwing a pair on my mums gb give it a bit more go ?

[davetrees]

Significantly better than a single stock downdraught ... BUT assuming they are in good condition & tuned properly (and parts are near impossible to get). Another option (assuming the flanges are the same - not sure if they are ?) would be to put a pair of genuine SU carbs on rather than the Aisans.

An easier / cheaper option for a moderate but noticeable performance improvement over stock would be to put a single 32/36 downdraught Weber (or probably even better a 34ADM) on it.

[2Lgalant]

Yeah I want to go twins just can't think side draft or down draft I have both just what do I want to use

[davetrees]

Try both & see what works best !

Something that might be worth considering though ..... Mitsubishi ditched the sidedraught Aisan carbs setup in around 1972 and went to the twin downdraught Solex setup for their "sports" models (both Galant and Lancer). I'm guessing they did that for a reason ?

[2Lgalant]

True I'm thinking twin down draft just for the stock look so ill go with it

[partyboyjay]

ill check on mine next time on down there if you want buddy?

[A57C]

a few pics fyi jason:

[A112H]

Awesome, cheers for that. The top pic is what I would love but am probably going to end up with down drafts.
The main reason for this is the stock tin air box is a lot easier to find for downsies.

[davetrees]

Top pic is from the "works" Galant 16LGS sedan driven by Andrew Cowan to win the 1972 Southern Cross Rally ... now in the Mitsubishi museum. (AFAIK, the factory team never rallied the hardtops .... I guess because it's easier to access the back for spare tyres etc in a 4 door !)

Basically, that's the "C2" setup - it was never a production line option. The aircleaner was only part of the C2 Sports Kit I believe ... so there would be VERY few around these days !

[A57C]

found pics of the coltspeed setup for reference

[A112H]

Awesome info and pics, thank you both very much. I think I am going to go sidies, as I said it certainly will not be a fast build so have plenty of time to source parts

[tandanus]

FWIW I have Aisan HF40Ds on my 4G32 chain. Sound great ! BUT - as above - parts dont exist - but full sets turn up every now and then. Also - starting without the choke butterflies (ie relying on the enrichment system) is difficult. And the 2 vacuum bodies that go with them are best retained rather than removed. Tuning for a modified engine means making parts From what Ive read twin down Solexes are a waste of effort if you are after performance. Best for performance and tuning is twin side Webers..but $$
T.

[shelbygto]

Yea twin 40 's new fitted tuned cost me about 2k