help with v6 conversion??

[joel187]

well i been thinkin lately that its time for a new engine in my gj sigma.... most likely a v6 commodore conversion..
i dont really have the knowledge to do it my self but just wondering what kinda price would i be looking at to get it done?? minus actually buying the engine, gear box, conversion kit etc.. what would i expect to pay in labour??
and what engine would be best for it... 3.8L ecotec or buick??
cheers..

[oldn64]

Joel,

to give you a figure I would suggest you will not get too much change from $15,000 including everything fitted and engineered etc. I know this might sound high but lets look at it this way. If you build a locost ICV you require the EPA test torsional testing and full engineering of the vehicle. Most people who go through this build their own vehicle and report at least 13K from start to finish and that is with them doing the work whihc is designed for the motor they have chosen. With you it will be a little easier as you are starting with the car and fitting an engine (which has been done before) into this base. So if you can do some of the work you can reduce the price a little.

Cheers

[A112H]

$15,000 sounds way to high to me. I couldn't see it costing more than 5 or 6 start to finish.
$1500 for a running VR (to strip of engine, gearbox and engine harness)
$1500 for someone to fit it (make engine mounts, gearbox cross member, cut shifter hole and make tailshaft)
$1000 for an auto elec to wire it (should only take an auto elec about 4 hours with a complete Sigma and Commodore)
$500 for an engineer to look it over and pass it (in SA this will set you back about 2 hours and maybe $300)
$500 for new exhaust and cat convertor (this should get you a full exhaust if you can use the factory manifolds, of course you can add on the cost of extractors if you need them)
$500 for stuff you will forget at first, lol.
I really dont see it costing any more than that, of course the amounts I have listed are very rough, an engineer might cost more and an auto elec wouldn't be a grand but you get the idea.
I have done a few RB20's into R31's and SR20's in S12's and they are easily done for 5-6k

[75wagon]

What oldn64 said may be true? I'm not sure, but my advice would be to talk to an automotive engineer. They are up to date with all the latest changes to rules in your state, and he/she will be able to fill you in on whatever requirements you need to fulfill before you go ahead with the conversion.
It may be as simple as finding someone else who has already done the same conversion who is in your state.

I know that when I put the motor that is in my wagon, they told me the numbers weren't from an Australian motor and that if I could prove that a Galant had been registered in NSW with one before, then I could avoid the testing associated with putting an import engine into an Australian built car. It came from a running car so I just had to give them the details and they were happy with that.

Hope this helps?

Dave...

[77galantv6]

mine cost us around $10,000 (i have receipts for everything) and that was doing it
at a house (no mechanics labour fee's) without using a kit (made custom stuff)

engineer in nsw had the car for 3 days doing evaluations and writing up the whole report
and going through all the adr requirements etc and it cost around $1200
but that is because my tunnel had to be cut out and new one made,
suspension, brakes, seats, stearing, wheels, the whole lot.....

mind you thats for where the car is today and its pretty much complete except for paint
and thats with all the little details done as well.
it does add up.

if you have a mate who is a mechanic (or at least mechanically minded) you can do the swap yourself
its just the wiring and stuff thats the fiddly bits - and if your using a kit even better

so say around the 5 - 7 mark becasue you wont have to upgrade your brakes, suspension, trans tunnel etc
more of a straight forward conversion than a galant...

[milotan]

why bother I have owned two commodores one vr and one vs basically their crap motors , they use oil ,their harsh ,noisy,gutless and any decent performance shop Ive spoken too have laughed at the idea of using these engines
.whether it would cost you $5000 ,$10000 or $15000 it would be a waste of money .There are way better engines out there
even the astron rebuilt would be better than a v6

[75wagon]

why bother I have owned two commodores one vr and one vs basically their crap motors , they use oil ,their harsh ,noisy,gutless

I suppose it is comparative. Gutless compared to what? A Sigma, would be a lot quicker then a Commodore with the Commodore's V6 in it. Power to weight. Doesn't a Sigma weigh about 1100kg? And a Commodore about 1450kg?. As a matter of fact, after driving 76galantv6's Galant, I actually had thoughts of buying a Sigma and doing the conversion myself. It would be a much easier conversion then into a Galant.

I am not a Commodore fan, they are harsh as you say, they are noisy, and I don't think they are much of a motor, but the availability of parts and affordability that goes with it is something that can't be denied.

I would be really interested to hear what it would cost to do the conversion. If it's not to bad you never know, I might be interested?

Dave...

[TUFSIG]

i know of a v6 GJ sigma for sale in Vic atm
and bang for buck a 3.8 is ok i mean i personally wouldnt go near them cause i have a 200kw + astron but if you blow your motor up OH KNOWS where will i ever find another one lol
if you have the kit and want to do then go for it mate

[www.18u]

I think it is a great swap. It all depends really on what you want to achieve with your car as to what way you should go.Yes there is great arguements to both sides on here, however as there is plenty of motors available and there is a kit for the conversion meaning you could keep the costs down if you are not afraid to swing a spanner. Yes adding labour (mechanical/electrical) and engineers will be your problem, but if you went turbo on the existing motor you will run into similar costs as these still need to be done.

[Smithy]

If I was doing this swap I would use the later 3.6 engine.It is much smoother and more powerful.I went for a spin in a guys gemini with the 190kw version of this motor and it was awesome.It was quicker than his 307kw ss commodore.Great bang for your buck.These motor command a higher price but well worth it in my opinion.

[joel187]

wow thanks 4 all the input guys... i know these engines arent the best, ive owned a fair few commodores before.. but reason im keen on it is that u can pick one up dirt cheap and theres no shortage of parts for them either..
and i recon the power to weight ratio would be pretty good....
guess ill just have to keep looking in to it and price it all up...

cheers guys

[77galantv6]

I am not a Commodore fan, they are harsh as you say, they are noisy, and I don't think they are much of a motor, but the availability of parts and affordability that goes with it is something that can't be denied.

I'm not a commodore fan either, but with a standard motor, pod filter, extractors and exhaust
my car pulled 165hp at the tyres.
later this year i am thinking of pulling the motor down and putting in a cam
and some roller rockers etc and will take it back on the dyno.

and the availability of parts is totally it, i did a fuel pump a few months ago, walked into
auto one and got a brand new part straight away. got my rocker covers painted by dave and so i could keep
driving my car, went to the wreckers, got some second hand covers for $10.

and i know they arent a peformance engine but i still have a shitload of fun in mine
and can keep up with some decent cars and beat quite a few.....

[Smithy]

If you want it to really go contact larry perkins from v8 supercar fame.He used to build all the engines for the open wheeler class that ran with the dunnydore v6 engines.They had 300hp at the wheels-so they can go.

[MattyGJV8]

Hey dude. There is a bloke in Moree that sells a kit to put V6's in siggys.

http://www.v6conversions.com.au/SIGMA%20INFORMATION.htm

I also saw a vid of a bloke with a GJ sig with a VN motor in it i think (on youtube) and it looked pretty sweet, but if you find that vid have a look at some of the comments below, one of the guys didn't give him (the guy at moree) a good rap, but yeh it's your money mate. I think the kit from him was about 1000 bucks plus extras for some stuff. So 1000 plus about 400 bucks for the engine and box (i wouldn't pay more than that) plus a bit of home welding and wiring and your all set.

Get some pics up when your done. I'm also thing about doing this soon, unless my mate gives me his RX-7 motor, but we'll see.

[84gksigmawa]

hey man did you do the build? cos im thinking of doing the same thing wondering how it went? lol

[lance]

Whats wrong with the Mitsubishi V6 ? A good engine is easy to get, nice and smooth . I can understand if you want a
manual the Commodore would be the Way to go .I have a VN wagon which l have just replaced the engine with a VR.
The old S1 VN motor had more low down power but not as smooth as the VR.We also have TF Magna V6 3L , a better motor .Really smooth , sound good

[75wagon]

Whats wrong with the Mitsubishi V6 ? A good engine is easy to get, nice and smooth . I can understand if you want a
manual the Commodore would be the Way to go .I have a VN wagon which l have just replaced the engine with a VR.
The old S1 VN motor had more low down power but not as smooth as the VR.We also have TF Magna V6 3L , a better motor .Really smooth , sound good

There are a few reasons why the Commodore V6 (regardless of which model chosen) is a common choice
- There is a conversion kit that is able to be bought over the counter
- Cost of obtaining the motor (and or whole car)
- Ease to get parts

Are there these types of conversion kits for the 3 or 3.5 Mitsubishi Magna V6's? If there are I think they would make a good coversion. As you say Lance they are a better motor, no argument there from me at all.

Dave...

[webby]

http://www.sigma-galant.com/viewtopic.p ... 482#p17482
dg used pajero mounts, and an A340 4-speed auto from a Cressida should bolt up to a Pajero bellhousing