GK GSR.. Turbo Carb or EFI Turbo

[TVM006]

Id like some facts and advice on which way may be better to go. Atm without too much knowledge im leaning towards turbocarb setup only because it would be easier to set up.

Id like to know things like..
Which is more prone to problems?
More power?
Fuel consumption?
Just things like that.. Going on GK GSR

Bear in mind im only 17.. so when im on my P's >>> .. or maybe not?

Love to hear some advice, sorry if this has been covered before

-aaron

[Sigmaproject]

Either way, you should upgrade the brakes and suspension first. Even if you spend all of your money on suspension upgrades it will be a far better car to drive.

Which ever way you go as far as a turbo goes, you need to get your turbo kit complete before you even think about raising the bonnet. And spare transport will be handy, because it will take a lot longer, and cost a lot more, than you think.

Carby turbo can give a nice increase in power, without putting too much strain on the driveline

Efi would be more reliable ,and give a bigger power increase. But driveline upgrades will eventually be required if you are serious.

Bast of luck with it

[darcy79]

Please,

a carbi turbo upgrade takes 3 hours if you have all the parts, and if setup correctly will yield similar power gains as efi.
only benefit of EFI is extra time(2 days)/money(at least $2000 more) to install, and a fancy little ECU to play with if you know how.

[TUFSIG]

if you can find a factory gh turbo detup then yes its a good upgrade allthough my carby always gave me brief even after a rebuild

id wait till your off your p plates and just enjoy your twin webbers for now
and once you learn enough about turbo and efi go down that path but each to there own i tried both webbers and carby turbo and landed on EFI at the end

[Sigmaproject]

Please,

a carbi turbo upgrade takes 3 hours if you have all the parts, and if setup correctly will yield similar power gains as efi.
only benefit of EFI is extra time(2 days)/money(at least $2000 more) to install, and a fancy little ECU to play with if you know how.

3 hours eh
Thats to lower the compression, remove and re-place the inlet,remove and replace the exhaust, remove and replace the dizzy,fit the turbo and associated oilfeed and return pipes, remove the sump to fit the oil return,fit the sandwich plate and the oil cooler ,connect the inlet to the wastegate,fit the auxilary fan, paint and fit the bonnet vents, fit the new accelerator cable, fit the choke cable, connect the PCV valve,rig the charcoal canister lines rig the new vacuum lines, fit and tune the carby,fit the new water hoses for the inlet. And when that is done, fit a whole new dump and exhaust system.
And all you have done is fit the parts to a bog stock engine.Then you have to get it tuned to run right.

And how are you going to get any decent power out of a carby turbo that has a single 44mm venturi. My lawnlower has a bigger carb than that.

[cheaterparts]

And how are you going to get any decent power out of a carby turbo that has a single 44mm venturi. My lawnlower has a bigger carb than that.

in the circuit class we run turbo cars have to run a 36 mm restrictor in the inlet but still run the 300 to 350 hp mark
so it not that you can get good numbers with a draw though - however I wouldn't dream of running one myself

efi is the go first you can use an intercooler - you can run more comp - the set up of both fuel and spark curves can be adjusted better as a rule
its just a better system in fact if you were going to use a carb a blow through would be better

[darcy79]

yes that is how long it took me to install the factory turbo kit i bought (by myself on the street)
and your doubt that it can be done that quick either means;
1. you have no idea about cars and just try to talk like you do,
2. you are jealous you couldn't do it in that time frame, or
3. your just a tool.

[Sigmaproject]

Thats 260 kw from a carby turbo with a restrictor

Why do people worry about EFI at all

A carby Turbo would give good numbers if it was just setup for a full power run , without the power curve necessary for a street engine, but thats about 100kw more than I would have estimated.

[cheaterparts]

efi is the go first you can use an intercooler - you can run more comp - the set up of both fuel and spark curves can be adjusted better as a rule
its just a better system in fact if you were going to use a carb a blow through would be better

Thats 260 kw from a carby turbo with a restrictor

Why do people worry about EFI at all

A carby Turbo would give good numbers if it was just setup for a full power run , without the power curve necessary for a street engine, but thats about 100kw more than I would have estimated.

if we were to use a carb in the class a restrictor would be used and would flow less than the 44 mm carb which was my first point

as for 260 Kw yes you could get it with a carb - easier with a blow through than a draw though
mainly because of the use of an intercooler
not being able to use an intercooler with a draw though means lower comp ratios fatter fuel mixes and softer ign timings

"Why do people worry about EFI at all " pretty simple its better and even easier when ever wrecker has efi manifolds to suit for next to nothing - after market ECUs are easy to come by and fairly cheap

[TUFSIG]

yes that is how long it took me to install the factory turbo kit i bought (by myself on the street)
and your doubt that it can be done that quick either means;
1. you have no idea about cars and just try to talk like you do,
2. you are jealous you couldn't do it in that time frame, or
3. your just a tool.

ease up hero, Ive done the carby conversion and yeah it would take longer the 3hrs to do everything but if you did it then good for you, you must be such a tank.... man im so jealous of your ability to be cocky and abuse members that have been around a lot longer then you. No need to take it personally he was just giving his opinion.

[TUFSIG]

"Why do people worry about EFI at all " pretty simple its better and even easier when ever wrecker has efi manifolds to suit for next to nothing - after market ECUs are easy to come by and fairly cheap

Yeah you can pick up a complete TS magna for under 200 bucks maybe less and then its not much to mod the plenum and get a good ecu i mean these days you can get a Haltech 500 sprint for just over 1k and thats a great ECU.

[deathsminion]

Turbo carb or turbo EFI is entirely doable in 3 hours as long as everything goes your way. Anyone who has spent any amount of time working on cars understands that things rarely go your way!

A big +1 to turbo EFI. There are just far more options when it comes to amount of boost, intercooler setups, methanold/water injection etc etc. It's far, far simpler. Although if you like 3 foot flames from your exhuast, it is funny blowing the pins out of DHLA040's when you put more than 5 or 6 psi into them

Best of luck OP.

Edit: Over 12 months before making a post.. how lame am I?

[shuggy]

yes that is how long it took me to install the factory turbo kit i bought (by myself on the street)
and your doubt that it can be done that quick either means;
1. you have no idea about cars and just try to talk like you do,
2. you are jealous you couldn't do it in that time frame, or
3. your just a tool.

[Sigmaproject]

So are we talking about a crew of obviously highly skilled super engineers here, or we answering a question from a 17 year old that has limited machanical knowledge.

There is more to fitting a turbo kit than just bolting on the manifolds

Maybe he should just drop his car off to one of you guys, and call back in 3 hours and drive it away turbocharged .

[77galantv6]

you mean tow it away Sigmaproject lol

[cheaterparts]

So are we talking about a crew of obviously highly skilled super engineers here, or we answering a question from a 17 year old that has limited machanical knowledge.

you are quite right - we dont know his mechanical knowledge and at 17 its not going to be advanced

Realy the best bet is to get a copy of Maximum Boost by corky bell and do some reading its a fairly good guide
and worth a read

yes that is how long it took me to install the factory turbo kit i bought (by myself on the street)
and your doubt that it can be done that quick either means;
1. you have no idea about cars and just try to talk like you do,
2. you are jealous you couldn't do it in that time frame, or
3. your just a tool.

I wasn't going to get into the 3 Hr fitting part of this post how ever
there Is no way I could or would fit a carb/turbo that I bought from another car in that time frame
you would spend that much time maching the ports

as for guys being jealous - of what of a half hearted job but if your happy with your work Good on you

as for calling some one here in a public forum a tool theres no need for it

[Sigmaproject]

Not only that, the motor has to come out to fit a decent clutch and put on the turbo sump. Also a good idea to replace the engine mounts while it is out.

Much easier to mount all of the turbo manifolds and dump pipe with the motor on an engine stand. Along with the adapter for the oil cooler.

And if you want it to be a little bit reliable, a decent head gasket. That doesnt take 5 minutes.

And the new fuel system for the turbo. The list goes on and on.

To suggest that you could lift the bonnet with a completely stock engine, and drop the bonnet on a fully operational turbo in 3 hours is ludicrous, and would probably indicate that the person has never actually done any of his own machanical work.

And a link to the book that Cheater was talking about. http://www.megaupload.com/pl/?d=U8ZP5LMP

I have an account with the downloader, but I think you should be able to download the PDF file as a free user.

[darcy79]

so are we building a race car or a car for someone to learn from ?
you can just bolt the stuff on and it will work fine.

i don't know about you but when i was 17 i didn't have thousands to spend.
thats the trouble with forums, full of "experts" but hardly any of them are helpful.

[oldn64]

Ok just to add my two.two cents (has GST... ;) )

Your 17, and while that is not a bad thing it is something to take into consideration. You will not have a huge budget nor a wealth of know yet, sure things are do able but start small, we all had too so why should this be any different. Dont think I am having a go just stating reality. Have a look at all the guys with far quicker cars than yourself that write themselves off. I witnessed one the other night just around the corner from me... XR6 wrapped around a pole, he was in a bad way. Start with what you have, when power and stresses go up so does the repair bill when it breaks. If you are like mostr younger guys you will look at something that it a "bargain" what this will usually mean is that you will purchase pieces whihc may not have been on a car for a while and then sit in your shed for a couple of months. this in turn means that when you bolt the manifold on you find the previous owner had over heated the inlet so it is slightly distorted thus requiring work, then you forgot to get a turbpo dizzy so the advance curve is not right so you compromise on the timing, the carby has sat for a while and leaks or the previous own had no idea when it came to CD strommies/ stuck a SU on it and didnt put the right needle in it or the needle is bent. ETC ETC, there are a number of pit falls. your clutch gives up with the new found power so you are now up for a replacement so you go bigger. Sure this is extreme but it paints the picture that others have, 3 hours might be achievable with compromises but that does not mean it cannot be done. Things to concider....

1. get the suspension and brakes right first. (these are safety things)
2. play with the current setup and learn from what you have and can get readily thus if something breaks parts are not so rare/are cheap
3. Collect your part for your turbo conversion later in life and ask other members to assist with the restoration/checking of parts over a period of time (better for your wallet and end result is better)
4. EFI does not need to be rocket science this is an option. Does not need to be expensive either!
5. above all enjoy your car it should give you reasonable trouble free motoring if you look after it. If you need a hand dont be scared to ask a question there is never a dumb one!

This is one other thing, learn to drive....track days are one hell of a great fun day and good source of learning. try and get a seasoned driver (not street racer) to give you tuition on the day this will assist you at understanding how to become safer and faster. most seasoned racers will be happy to help but from experience I would suggest you get your full license first (ie off your L plates) and put 6 months of driving under your belt, this will give you road sence and thus car positioning. after that track day it up and open your ears, you will learn much.

Like these forums it is supposed to be fun so chin up you will get there.

Cheers

[Sigmaproject]

The point I was trying to get across to the young guys was that there is no sense doing a half hearted turbo conversion, because it will always be broken and sitting in the driveway waiting on cash to fix it.

[TVM006]

OVERWHELMING RESPONSE!

First and foremost:
I'd like to thank everybody for their ideas and input into responding to my question. I have been reading all the responses!

Right at this point in time I am getting my priorities straight.. I have already spent thousands on my car, and still its not on the road.. but nearly there!
Just finished power steering conversion and heater core transplant
I realize I have been a bit overambitious with what I want, compared to my financial status ... so i have decided not to go turbo right now.. why spend all my money on stuff that would be illegal for me to drive on my P's anyway (VIC LAWS).
So maybe in a few years i might start thinking about going down this track. I only bought twin webers a month or so ago and havnt even got them on?! What am i thinking already wanting a TURBO?!

These responses have helped me get back on the right track and snap out of that hooning P plater mindset which kills many young ppl every year!
I dont wanna become a statistic or to just put myself at risk anyway.

So again like to thank everyone for their input! This info may become useful in a couple of years!

[darcy79]

Sigmaproject,
i think the point you were trying to make is you have no clue, all you can do is talk crap making out like you think you know how to do things.
maybe you should actually do instead of just talk.

[75wagon]

I think this has gone on for long enough.
I would normally send this as a private message, but I think everyone needs to see this.

Sigmaproject,
i think the point you were trying to make is you have no clue, all you can do is talk crap making out like you think you know how to do things.
maybe you should actually do instead of just talk.

darcy79, are you looking for an argument or what?
I don't care what you do or do not know, but I am confident of this, Sigmaproject (since you have picked him out in particular) does know what he is talking about.

i don't know about you but when i was 17 i didn't have thousands to spend.
thats the trouble with forums, full of "experts" but hardly any of them are helpful.

As you say this is a forum, and everyone has the option to put up info that they feel can be helpful. You may not always agree with what other members have written, but others may not always agree with what you have written.


A bit of advice to all:
Be careful what you write on here as advice, because you don't know the amount of knowledge the person are giving advice to has.
Be constructive.
Don't bag everyone out for giving their opinion, otherwise no one will, and what good is a forum then?
Be prepared to get burnt on here if you bag someone's advice.


Dave...
EDIT: PM sent also...

[DanTurboLancer]

I want to congratulate, for the most part, everyones "Helpful" advise.

A young bloke has the guts to get on here and politely ask for help and assistance, and is grateful to recieve any information even if it is against what he had hoped to do.
And for the better part, good advise was given, from members with many, many years of experience.

TMV006 it might seem like a pain that the laws have changed restricting what engines and power you L and P platers are able to drive now,
But im glad you are mature enough to understand why!

When i was on my Ps a V8 was the gear!
But there was no-way me and my mates could afford one.
So we all got stock 4 bangers to learn in.
But the advantage of that is, its a great way to learn about cars.
The old saying you have to crawl before you can walk.

We slowly built our cars up, slowly worked on the power side of things with Exhausts, carb upgrades, cams etc.
It was another 6 years before i got a Turbo motor!

But Brakes and suspension should always be your main priority first up for safety atleast. (as was said before)


Get a copy of a Gregories Service manual for your car and learn about all of your basic servicing.
Then you could look at more advanced books such as what Cheaterparts suggested.
And do some research and learn what you can. Help other people work on their cars is a good way to learn also.

You dont have to be a motor mechanic to work on cars either, most of our members arent, and if you read most car magazines the guys who own the cars in there rarely are either.


Keep plugging away TMV
Get that car of yours regoed




Hmm a turbo in under 3 hours..
Anything is possible...

this could be it??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr6CiRQbV6M