Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

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Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby Cottees » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:54 am

After seeing several people wanting a start to finish EFI guide, I have decided to write one based on my conversion. I pretty much have it all in my build thread, if you want to read through 17 pages. The way I have done the intake is different to what others have done, but the conversion I have done can use the intake what ever way you choose to have it.

What you'll need:
4G54
Magna head (I went with the M4)
Complete Magna TR/TS intake including throttle body, injectors and fuel rail
2x Loom from a Magna TR/TS cut off at the firewall but leaving the ECU plugs attached
All sensors that are on the loom
ECU from a Magna TR/TS
Thermostat housing from a Galant (WO22A)
Fuel pump from a VL commodore (Bosch 050)

What is recommended:
Service manual for the car you are doing the mod to
Service manual for a Magna TR/TS

Wiring Diagram:
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby TR11KY » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:49 pm

good stuff mate im impressed. im a big fan of seeing the guys who took the time to use the factory ecu and wire it all in. It would look so stock and yet give great performance. Props too ya man for the hard work! That pump will serve you well...
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby corty240 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:36 am

hey mate, hope you plan on finishing this post, im just about to put fuel injection on my sigma 2.6 astron 2 and am struggling to find a complete post from an inventory to driving the car. The information I have already got from this post is more helpful than anything else I have found online, thanks for starting this post and please finish it, even if it is only me doing it I would very much appreciate it, thanks mate
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby leoca64 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:59 pm

if you are still out there- this will help with your electrical questions...
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5259
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby 84gksigmawa » Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:57 pm

Hey cottees old thread but hoping your or someone may know, did you run relays for fuel pump ecu and starter or none? I had battery issues with my last car my fuel injection was in battery was ok but leave overnight and the battery would be dead by morning. Or would crank like crazy for ages before firing. Also did you have any idle issues? Mine would stall almost at idle cheers guys for any help
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby Superscan811 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:54 pm

84gksigmawa wrote: did you run relays for fuel pump ecu and starter or none?
If you get the entire loom from the TR/TS Magna, it should include the fuel pump relay.

The quirky thing with the wiring is the ECU requires power while cranking. If you just take the power from the IGNITION, you will not be getting power while cranking.

Easy fix is use a $5 Bridge rectifier from Jaycar (Part No: ZR1324). Wire the + to the ECU, then wire 1 of the ~ (AC)
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby Superscan811 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:59 pm

CONT... (No Edit Function. :( )

to the IGNITION, the other ~ to the START.

The Negative isn't used.


PS, use the ECU's fuel relay output because it detects if the engine is running, if it's not (ie: a crash), it switches off the fuel pump.


Hope this helps.


Cheers.
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby 84gksigmawa » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:57 pm

Hey superscan I used the wire from the ecu direct to fuel pump primes at on then on when running but unsure on whether it's pumping while cranking. The ecu is just powered by ignition wire I assumed voltage drops while cranking was all. I cut a lot of my loom back to nothing and I think there's only 3 connected to the car itself, power to ecu the pump(direct from ecu) and one to fuse block that I made similar to cottees. Haha is this a bad thing? Can I get away with a standard relay to power ecu with the trigger from ignition and standard relay for fuel pump trigger from the ecu or will the voltage drop still be there
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby Superscan811 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:08 am

84gksigmawa wrote:Hey superscan I used the wire from the ecu direct to fuel pump primes at on then on when running but unsure on whether it's pumping while cranking.
You need to run the fuel pump via a relay, NOT directly off the ECU.


84gksigmawa wrote:The ecu is just powered by ignition wire I assumed voltage drops while cranking was all.
The IGN, off the key, is disconnected when cranking, that is why the engine seems to fire AFTER you stop cranking, ie: this is also why your radio will turn off while cranking..



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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby Cottees » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:51 am

This is the way I have wired up my Sigma. Apart from breaking the loom when I first put it in the car, it has been running for over 30,000kms now.
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For fuel pump, I get the power from the Control Relay. That will switch on and off the fuel pump and other stuff via the ECU. I ran a new wire from the Control Relay from behind the dash near the ECU to the back of the car and through a rubber grommet in the boot. The earth for the pump is just the earth wire bolted to the boot near the tail lights.

Some of the fuses in the diagram above aren't needed, but put them in for extra protection.

I have had idle issues where it would stall unless I kept the revs up. I found that it was caused by an air leak between the Throttle Body and the Air Flow Sensor. I would also get the Magna TR/TS manual, and test out the Air Flow Sensor, and make sure the Throttle Position Sensor is set up right.
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby 84gksigmawa » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:43 pm

Sorry to be a pain cottees but I see you ran pipe from the thermostat to the front does it overheat at all? Mine was with same setup just hose instead of pipe. I assume you run a/c does it affect it? No air con running and mine was over 3/4 by the end of maccas drive thru. Cheers for the help guys
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby Cottees » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:33 pm

I am a bit of a lead foot, and was driving around when it was 40C+ outside. No overheating problems at all. If you use a Magna temp sensor and a Sigma temp gauge, it reads a little hotter than it really is. I can't find the measurements I worked out, but I think the first tick after C on the temp gauge was around 60C, and the tick before H was something like 95C, and the H was around 98C.
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby Cottees » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:35 pm

I should add, at the moment, I am not using the AC since it isn't gassed. Hence why it was around 50C+ inside the car when I was driving it around on such a hot day.
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby d3v147 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:41 pm

Aha! I thought my temp gauge was faulty! I just go off the ecu now.
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby 84gksigmawa » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:00 pm

Cheers thanks for that clean the motor and seals up and 're wire it and hey presto might start again haha hopefully this motor goes harder than the last.
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby 84gksigmawa » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:43 pm

Hey cottees got my motor in just curious about the ballast resistor did you chop this out ? Original wiring in engine bay did you just leave it all there? Just looks untidy. Getting excited.
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby Cottees » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:30 pm

I don't think mine had a ballast resistor. The Magna doesn't have one, so it should be ok to remove it.
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby 84gksigmawa » Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:26 am

Hey cottees mine is up and running just a little gutless just wondering what timing u run?
Cheers
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby Cottees » Mon May 04, 2015 9:14 pm

For a while, I just adjusted it to a 'that sounds right' position. How it is setup at the moment is the standard way a Magna is adjusted. There is a connector on the loom that I think you earth, and that stops the ECU from adjusting the dizzy. Then with a timing light, it was set to 5 degrees before top dead centre. Once that plug is unplugged, using the timing light again, it fluctuated between 10-15 degrees BTDC.
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby 84gksigmawa » Tue May 05, 2015 7:27 pm

Thanks for that I set it to that sounds right but still gutless and adjusted one way it pinged the other it was even flatter. Set to 5 deg btdc then found the sweet spot much better but I think the dizzy isn't advancing and that's why it feels flat will post results in my building thread when I've swapped over for another cheers for the help :thumpsup:
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby d3v147 » Wed May 06, 2015 1:29 pm

Dizzy itself doesn't control advance. The ecu adjusts the signal to the coil ignitor based on it's ignition table. You should be able to see if this function is working using a timing light and revving the motor up.

Manually rotating the dizzy adjusts the static timing as it changes the position of the hall effect sensors in its base.

I think there is a way to read the error codes out of the ECU; have you tried that?
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby 84gksigmawa » Wed May 06, 2015 8:00 pm

I will be testing it just have to find the wire and my led light not difficult to find if I back probe the ecu :thumpsup: so glad I had a tr manual and a sigma mqanual haha
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby barana » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:32 pm

Hey gents..
Just got the tr astron II shoehorned into the sb L300 reasonably :) (only took me 3 years!
Fixed a few overheating issues by putting in some springs into the inlet and outlet pipes and fitted a large flow thermostat.... Have an SE 4wd 3 core radiator (I don't have the luxury of a sedan's large engine bay) I did think the head had hotspots as I have used a tp intake with larger TR throttle body a fixed to the other end of the intake Mani and the old TB blocked off.As the thermostat was -as he old throttle body- going to be halfway thru the firewall, I cut out a carbie manifold's thermo housing and grafted it in getting a tig welder to make it permanent.(I don't think I've made hotspots in the head by now taking my radiator outlet from the water port on the front of the head instead of he rear,because If this was an issue, people who convert m6... Or is it m9 that I have?.. (Its hemi headed)heads to carby would have the same pinging issue I have.(I thought the ecu retarded the timing when it hears detonation)Ive corrected the cooling Issues this arvo, and taking it for a run at 110kph on the highway,whilst at operating temp,I put it under load- drove it up a big hill section of the highway- and it pinged more than a muslim keyboard warrior ;) so I'm thinking its unlikely overheating..I don't understand why the ecu doesn't retard the timing...
Is here any way I can have a readout on my multimeter of the retard/advance activity ... As I can't manage putting my timing light on it down he highway.
I originally base timed it at 10deg using the ground wire method but moved it back to 5deg base. Which cottees reported OK.oh BTW I too am using the TR manual ecu.. The TS man ecu is a different part no.
Will go over each sensor tomorrow as I'm perplexed.The ecu logs no fault at all.
I have used a wideblock pajero timing case and relocated the timing mark from the paj to the magna harmonic balancer.....to match the paj timing mark location.
Hmm I did recall not locating the power steering pump load sensor that I read about in the wiring diagram....
If my 02 sensor is out of range as a astute efi guy told me recently the manufacturers are moving the switch point on single wire sensors due to a large amount of returns .he has found this on his customers cars... The ecu won't log it, it will think things are perfect.yet I could be leaning out.Under load this would cause ping....I did buy the O2 sensor two years ago tho.
If I disconnected the 02sensor forcing the ecu to run open loop,it would log fault and not ping under the the same load conditions. Hmmm might try that.
Does anyone have any theories?
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby barana » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:18 pm

Well I don't think it's the o2 sensor
.. Still pinging

..fuel pressure is running at 395-390kpa
.. I t has a Bosch inline pump, spec is the 260kpa at idle and 300 at wot.
Would high fuel pressure cause detonation? Thought It would run rich more than anything.extra fuel or even dribbling.
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby mstrrab1992 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:37 pm

Something is making your car run lean under load, those pressure from memory i was running 35-50psi which is about the same that you have and i never had any issues. i dont think high pressure would cause it to ping. maybe its not retarding the timing for some reason?
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby barana » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:12 pm

I do remember something...The vehicle speed sensor that is a reed switch beside the speedo,I left out because I thought it was only for cruise control. Has anyone else left theirs out?
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby Cottees » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:13 pm

barana wrote:Or is it m9 that I have?..

The M9 (don't think the M8 is the same) has a kidney bean shape combustion chamber. The ones prior have a hemi shape. If you have a M9 head, that would explain the pinging since the compression would be higher than normal. You'd have to change to an earlier head with a hemi shape, or use higher octane petrol.

BTW I too am using the TR manual ecu.. The TS man ecu is a different part no.

They should both be pretty similar.

I thought the ecu retarded the timing when it hears detonation

If the knock sensor is connected.

mstrrab1992 wrote:Something is making your car run lean under load

Mine has run lean if I have <15L in the tank, turn a corner and the fuel pressure drops. For me, this doesn't cause pinging, but the engine just struggles, and you can feel it lose power.

barana wrote:Would high fuel pressure cause detonation? Thought It would run rich more than anything.extra fuel or even dribbling.

It would more than likely make the car run really rich, and blow smoke.

barana wrote:drove it up a big hill section of the highway

Going up hill could be making the fuel slosh away from the pickup, but would cause lack of power, not actual pinging.

barana wrote:I originally base timed it at 10deg using the ground wire method but moved it back to 5deg base. Which cottees reported OK.

Yeah, it should be 5 degrees BTDC (Before Top Dead Centre). Then when the ECU controls it, you should see it hovering around 13 degrees BTDC.
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby Sigmaproject » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:46 pm

Cottees..your simplified wiring diagram inspired me to have a crack at one myself. This is as far as I got. Bloody nightmare. :(

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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby Cottees » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:42 pm

It is a nightmare. Soon many wires. But but when the loom is untaped, it makes more sense when you place it in the engine bay and connect everything up. Once I did that, I cable tied the wires together so it was a little neater, then taped it. Much more work then if you extend the loom. But it is worth it in the end. My setup was working well before I had to mess with it. After getting everything working again with a larger throttle body, it is working even better. The engine seems like it has picked up a little more power, and a decent amount of torque. And knowing how much I put into it makes the headaches with the loom worth it.
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Re: Cottees' TR/TS EFI conversion guide WIP

Postby barana » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:05 pm

Hey gents,
My scientific manuals rebuild your magna info was bogus saying for the astron 10 deg btdc as base timing .Thankyou for the help re 5Deg.
The only problem that remains, after tinkering with the cooling system to ensure it cools quick,is
When I take the vehicle over 80kp/h (3000rpm) to 100-110(3750-4000rpm) it pings and the coolant temp steadily rises. after I've travelled about 10km or so, its so hot it will boil out to the expansion bottle.
if at this high temperature I backoff and treat it tender, the temp will fall rapidly.
Looking at the workshop manual, the fuel side of the engine management does not require the reed switch in the dash, but in a list of sensors the ignition system side of the engine management requirements, the speed sensor (reed switch) is listed.in AT models this function is taken care of with the a/b sensors on the AT.
I think I need the speed sensor, as mine is manual.Has anyone else found this issue with conversion?
PS. I lost the speed sensor during conversion, I might just pick a reed switch up from jaycar and try to fit it to my l300 dash.Unless someone local has a pull?
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