Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

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Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby woops » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:10 pm

After seeing so many people asking about the engine swaps available in any of their mitsubishi cars i thought I would start a tread that could potentially become a sticky. There will be some things that i don't know and maybe some mistakes about some of the engines but I can update the original message with any information anyone wants to add. Also this is only a draft so I may have missed out some information about some of the swaps. I will post in pics of all the various swaps too in the next few days.

I'll start with the easiest and cheapest first and then you can work out what would be best for you car.

Pretty much all of the mitsubishi on this site will allow for the same engines to fit in but there are a couple of small differences between the models that require a little tweaking.

Galants/Lancers

(For a couple of the states including QLD and NSW there are restrictions of the size of engine able to be but into the car depending on the weight of the vehicle.

Naturally Aspirated engine Max Engine Capacity = 4.0 x weight

Forced Induction engine Max Engine Capacity = 2.75 x weight

The lightest Galants are the GB and that's 902 kg so max engine is a 3.6L NA or 2.48L Turbo.
) Awaiting verification on this information.

Engine options

Carb 4G52 2L Turbo
Carb 4g54 2.6L N/A
EFI 4g54 2.6L N/A
EFI 4g54 2.6L Turbo
EFI 4g63 2L DOHC N/A
EFI 4g63 2L SOHC Turbo
EFI 4g63 2L DOHC Turbo
EFI 4g64 2.4L DOHC Turbo


4g54
This engine comes with a few potential differences
Narrow bellhousing = Auto Engine
Wide Bellhousing = Manual Engine
Astron 1 = First gen of the 2.6 engine sound in the early sigma and is most easily identified by rocker cover being flat from the back to the front of the engine
Piston Type: Dished
Compression Ratio = ???

Astron 2 = Second Gen most easily identified by the raised level at the back of the head.
Piston Type: flat or valve relief design
Compression Ratio: ??

There are multiple heads available for this engine with the later model Magna heads flowing the best of any of them but that kind of detail on every head would be best for a different thread. The biggest difference is between the Astron 1 and 2 with differences with the inlet and exhaust manifold shapes.

Note for the 4-2-1 extractors for the 4g54 that suit the sigma/scorpion/Triton won't fit the galant/lancers unless the 2 pipes are on top of each other as they usually hit the steering box.
The steel engine mounts which come with all the RWD engines will suit fine. The galant/lancer may require selecting between the sigma and galant rubber mounts to allow it to sit fine.

Carb 4g54 2.6L N/A
Flywheel Power output = 85 KW @ 5000 rpm
Flywheel Torque output = 195NM @ 3000 rpm
Original Vehicles = Mitsubishi Sigma, Scorpion, Magna and Triton
Estimated Cost = $50-$300+
Good points:Simple, cheap, easy
Bad points: Small power increase, carby system can be unreliable
This would probably be the simplest and most affordable engine upgrade possible for any of the cars that don't have the engine as standard. To bolt into the sigma it's pretty straight forward and just sort out the minor wiring for the dizzy and starter motor. For the galants/lancers the clutch fan may require to be changed for some electric thermofans due to space restrictions or on the gc/gd you can just remove the radiator spacer.

The easiest option is to go for a a RWD variant of this engine as the FWD from the magna needs to have the timing cover, water pump and inlet manifold need to be changed from the RWD version to fit anyway.

EFI 4g54 2.6L N/A
Flywheel Power output = 102 KW @ 4750 rpm
Flywheel Torque output - 220 NM @ 4000 rpm
Original Vehicles = Magna
Estimated Cost = $200-$500+
Good Points: Cheap upgrade, affordable, better power and fuel efficiency
Bad Points: Wiring can be a hassle, Some custom fabrication required.
This option is using the Magna EFI inlet manifold and factory computer. To do this swap the throttle body to the opposite end as it makes it easier for the inlet piping. Also you can use this manifold on a Astron 2 head or can mod it to suit a Astron 1. Probably best to use the Magna head as it would typically flow much better then any sigma head. You can choose to use the factory wiring loom and computers or you can spend a little more make wiring a little easier by changing to a aftermarket computer.

There are two different inlet manifolds available from the two different generations of Magna's. The TN/TP is the earlier and smaller manifold and plenum chamber but will fit into the galant/lancer much easier. The TR/TS model have the larger plenum but require the runner to be shortened to fit Galant/Lancer. Both will fit the Sigma.

Draw Through Carb 4G52 2L Turbo
Max Power 116.4 KW @ 5200 rpm
Max Torque 235.3 NM @ 3200 rpm
Original Vehicle = GH Sigma Turbo
Estimated Cost = $500-$800+
Good Points: Straight bolt in engine
Bad Points: Difficult to find, Often need work to get running, replacement parts difficult to find, narrow gearbox only
This engine originally was from the original sigma turbo although very few actually still exist as complete factory. They come with a Single throat side draught Zenith-Stromberg carburetor and Garrett Air Research T03 turbocharger. This engine is a simple swap but only comes as a narrow block so only the 2L manual gearbox or any factory auto can be used.

EFI/Draw Through Carb 4g54 2.6L Turbo
Max Power = Varies depending on Modifications
Max Torque = Varies depending on Modifications
Original Vehicle = Overseas Starions (or sigma turbo running gear)
Estimated Cost = $500-$(how big is your wallet)
Good points = Good power vs cost,
Bad Points = Carby can be difficult to tune, EFI more expensive
The only vehicle that came with engine standard was the starion located overseas and are very hard to find over here. Usually people build them from the previously mentioned 4g54 engine. All of the equipment from the carb sigma turbo can be altered to suit this engine easily and is typically the cheapest option. The next step up is to go for the EFI option where you use the magna inlet manifold. The factory magna computer can apparently be used up to about 8 pound of boost but most people use this stage to upgrade to an aftermarket computer system. The exhaust manifold can be gotten from the sigma turbo (modded), 2.6L starion (note: this isn't to be confused with the locally delivered 4g63 starions). The other option for the exhaust is full custom manifold.

EFI 4g63 2L SOHC Turbo
Max power = 125 KW @ 5500
Max Torque = 1245 Nm @ 3500
Original Vehicle = Mitsubishi Starion
Estimated Cost = $600+
Good Points = Good Upgrade potential, Wide Gearbox, factory turbo
Bad Points = Poor factory electrical system, unreliable factory injection
This is an option to be considered if you are looking for a bit of extra power and plan to do further upgrades in the future. It has a little less power than the 4g54 turbo but it is already in a RWD setup so fits into all of the RWD cars easily and the gearbox is stronger with a hydraulic clutch. The computer system is very dated and can be very unreliable due to it being 25 year old eighties electronics and also has a pretty crappy fuel injection system. Often replaced with an aftermarket computer and go to a multipoint setup. It has plenty of potential for upgrades such as the multi-point inlet manifold can be used from the Y2 sonata or L300 and the L300 head can bolt on and retain all the factory manifolds. Or the head can be replaced with VR4, EVO1-3 and sonata 2L DOHC heads but this requires a new custom exhaust manifold.

EFI 4g63 2L DOHC N/A
Max power = 102 KW @ 5800
Max Torque = 180 Nm @ 4000
Original Vehicle = Hyundai Sonata Y3 94-98 (g4cp), Mitsubishi Galant HH GSR 89-93 (4g63)
Estimated Cost = $500+
Good Points = Good Potential for upgrades, great torque curve
Bad Points = Custom exhaust extractors, Narrow gearbox
This engine is only available from the front wheel cars so this means narrow gearbox only. It bolts into any RWD Mitsubishi easily by just using the RWD 4g63 engine mounts found in the starions and also the l200 utes with the 4g63 N/A SOHC. There are a couple of difficulties modifications needed to the water pump, thermostat and inlet manifold but there is a large about of information available on the http://www.projectzerog.com/ website and forum. The full workshop Hyundai manuals can also be found on this site http://www.hmaservice.com/ so you work out all the wiring and computers.

EFI 4g64 2.4L SOHC N/A
Max power = 82 KW @ 4500
Max Torque = 193 Nm @ 3500
Original Vehicle = Hyundai Sonata Y2 88-93 (g4cs), L300 Van (4g64)
Estimated Cost = $500+
Good Points = Good potential for upgrades, more torque then 4g63
Bad Points = L300 engines hard to find in good condition, sonata engines narrow, EFI wiring complexity
This is really only an option to consider if you are itching for a bit of extra power and plan on in the future going to a twin cam turbo. It bolts into any RWD Mitsubishi easily by just using the RWD 4g63 engine mounts found in the starions and also the l200 utes with the 4g63 N/A SOHC. The extractors can be gotten kinda easily as they have the same bolt pattern at the SOHC 4g63 found in the L200 and L300 but the factory electrics have the typical complexity associated with factory computers. The biggest difference between the sonata and L300 engine is that the L300 is easier to put into the RWD configuration but does cost a bit more. The Sonata one requires swapping the throttle body and a magna thermostat housing. The full workshop Hyundai manuals can also be found on this site http://www.hmaservice.com/ so you work out all the wiring and computers.



EFI 4g63 2L DOHC Turbo
Max power = 148 KW @ 6000
Max Torque = 279 Nm @ 3000
Original Vehicle = Mitsubishi Galant VR4
Estimated Cost = $2000+
Good Points = Great power output,
Bad Points = Narrow Gearbox, Popularity has driven the cost up, Mod’s required to fit, Custom exhaust manifold
This engine is considered to be a great upgrade but it does have the price tag to go with it. It bolts into any RWD Mitsubishi easily by just using the RWD 4g63 engine mounts found in the starions and also the l200 utes with the 4g63 N/A SOHC. It is only a narrow gearbox though but you can use the bottom end from a starion and change the pistons to have a wideblock. It’s more drivable then the 4g54 but more expensive too. The upside to the populatity is that the potential is there for much more power due to the availability of plenty of aftermarket off the shelf parts.

EFI 4g64 2.4L DOHC Turbo
Max power = 200kW+
Max Torque = ???
Original Vehicle = Combination of vehicles
Estimated Cost = $3000+
Good Points = Potential for big power
Bad Points = Most expensive option
This is probably one of the most expensive options possible for a 4 cylinder Mitsubishi engine but is also one with a lot of potential. This is pretty much the most expensive engine available for the Mitsubishi and few people actually have the balls to go for and engine like this. You can use a lot of off the shelf parts for this engine but you need to have the stroker crank which you can buy after market but it’s much cheaper to go for a sonata 2.4 or L300 2.4 bottom end with vr4 oversize pistons and the DOHC head from the Y3 sonata, vr4 galant or Evo 3. The biggest benefit of this combination is the benefit of the torque from the longer stroke and the benefits of the flow from the twin cam head. You can use the factory DOHC inlet manifolds but most choose to go custom due to already spending so much on the engine already.
Last edited by woops on Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby tandanus » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:08 pm

Wow. Some good info there.
Has http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_06_-_guidelines_for_light_vehicle_modifications_nov_2007.pdf been updated recently? It says for NA Original tare mass (kg) x 3.0 and for turbo/SC Original tare mass (kg) x 2.5. I hope youre right :)
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby woops » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:49 pm

I think it's pretty close to right but i would check with the engineers where you are to confirm. The problem is that each state likes to have their own different standards. There was an attempt to standardise everything but stupid bureaucrats like to make more work for themselves and are too stubborn to change to a better system.

The info i got this from was from http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb_ncop.aspx

It appears as though NSW has gone for the lower limit to engine capacity allowable. As far as I've been able to find out this is pretty much what Queensland uses but I haven't confirmed with a mod plater yet. All the compliance codes in the document correspond to the ones on my QLD modplate if that's anything to go by.

I hope QLD has the NCOP guidlines and not the same as the NSW RTA
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby panda » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:26 pm

woops wrote:4g54
This engine comes with a few potential differences
Narrow bellhousing = Auto Engine
Wide Bellhousing = Manual Engine
Astron 1 = First gen of the 2.6 engine sound in the early sigma and is most easily identified by rocker cover being flat from the back to the front of the engine
Piston Type ???
Compression Ratio = ???

Astron 2 = Second Gen most easily identified by the raised level at the back of the head.
Piston Type ???
Compression Ratio


Piston Type Astron I = Dished
Piston Type Astron II = Flat tops

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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby stealth » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:55 pm

dont be so confident on that panda as there are 4 different pistons for astron 2
not all flat tops :o
cheers stealth 8-)
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby panda » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:01 pm

Yes, thats true. What do you call that shape piston that suits the Magna M9 head ?
My guess its a 'heart shaped' flat top. ;)
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby stealth » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:07 pm

a valve relief :oops:
ps im not having a go
cheers stealth 8-)
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby A112H » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:18 pm

Triton RWD V6, yeah it is some messing about but not any more than on a FWD 4G63 DOHC Turbo??
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby S1GMARE » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:48 am

Galant_GT0 wrote:Triton RWD V6, yeah it is some messing about but not any more than on a FWD 4G63 DOHC Turbo??


I second that. Triton V6, great torque and very reliable if just serviced regularly.
At least the gearboxes aren't made of glass like the sigma ones either.
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby woops » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:26 am

I've heard about people always planning on doing this but i haven't actually seen anyone do one yet. I've seen people start to put v6 mitsubishi engines into the RWD but i haven't actually seen anyone who has had it running yet with gearbox. Most i've heard of have given up trying. I am happy to be proven wrong but i thought that the trans tunnel needed widening and new engine mounts and exhaust system required.

I've seen the commodore v6 done occasionally but yet to see a complete mitsubishi V6. Talking about the commodore conversion, does anyone know the cost of the conversion setup and whats required to fit it in from someone who actually did it soit can be added to the list of engine swaps.

I was looking at engines which basically bolt in with body modifications that can be done by the average backyarder and a hammer. I know a bunch of people can weld but most people here wouldn't be able to do welding sufficient to be strong enough to satisfy an engineer and wouldn't want to spend the money to get it done professionally.
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby S1GMARE » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:31 am

I've completed a V6 holden conversion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKjrbQD1Df8
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby A112H » Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:35 pm

KIA Sportage has a North South mounted 4G63. Haven't had a close look to see how the plumbing is sorted out.
These seem like the perfect option for RWD use if the thermo and Efi has been sorted out for us.
Any ideas?
Here is a pic
Image

Seriously I think I may have just found a real treasure here. I am going to find one at a car yard for a look-see and will let you all know what I think.
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby A112H » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:36 pm

BUMP, any ideas guys??? Someone must know something about this engine set up???
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby tandanus » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:01 pm

Dunno about the Kia donk really -Sonata Y3 clone?
If youre going to go to the trouble of adapting something that has the intake on the drivers side, why not just go Evo4+ ?
But yeah, will be interested to see what knowledge is out there...
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby A112H » Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:22 pm

I am pretty sure it is a BETA II engine. And me too, I really want to see what info I can get on this. If a viable option they would make a bloody cheap conversion, you can get a whole running 1998ish Sportage for under 5k
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby davenq » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:08 pm

thanks ,this is the sort of info I am chasing...
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby woops » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:16 pm

tandanus wrote:If youre going to go to the trouble of adapting something that has the intake on the drivers side, why not just go Evo4+ ?


I'd have to agree here. Why go for the option of spending up to 5 grand for a sportage when you could just go for the earlier Hyundai 2L or 2.4L engine. You can pick up a complete sonata for a few hundred bucks and it's relatively easy conversion to do with the easy gearbox options and plenty of upgrade potential.

I'd say if you are going to go to the effort and cost of using a kia engine when the vehicle alone would cost a few grand then you'd be better off going the full custom route and go for a SR20 or something. Although if you want to go for the different option then why not but i don't think it would be easier at all then the above mentioned engine combination.
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby Tj. » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:18 am

With the 4G63 DOHC engine from a sonata or gsr galant, were the automatic ecu's different from the manual? I might be able to pick up a cheap auto.
Also, what flywheel can I use. I'm assuming a 2L astron fly won't fit. Wish it would, I've already got one of them.
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby A112H » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:00 pm

It's not the side of the engine the intake is on that I care about it is the fact the TB isn't facing the firewall.
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby speedster694 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:26 pm

Are the 4g54t a standard engine? what do they come out of. are they in l200 utes?
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby A112H » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:49 pm

Copied this;

Roadworthy inspections
In South Australia, a roadworthy inspection is required when the vehicle has been fitted with a non standard engine.



I don't think we have turbo/supercharger rules here in SA as long as the engine was offered by the factory. IE: if you have a XD Falcon fitted with a 200cc 6cyl from the factory, you can just slam a 351cc V8 into it and it doesn't need inspection just update the engine number with motor rego.
Sadly it means that Galants are stuck with GA/B 1500, GC/D 1600. And all Sigma's /Scorpion's upto 2600.
However we do not have capacity VS weight restrictions like other states. If you could get an engineer to sign it off it is legal.
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby A112H » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:14 pm

I have found this pic in a GC Sedan. Any ideas what he has used for the thermostat movement or would it be custom?? Looks neat either way.

Image
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby woops » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:41 pm

Basically what it is that they have done is removed the welsh plug from the front and mounted an adapter for the standard thermostat housing. There is one of the websites based in the US which makes the front mounted thermostat housing. Not a very pretty setup and there is a bit of skepticism about the cooling to the rear of the head but users say that it works fine and they don't have any cooling issues. I think the thermostat mounted at the rear is a bit safer and tidier but you just need to sort out the adapter for the rear.

http://www.jayracing.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=13&sort=20a&page=1

Also noticed that the image you have there is actually a mirror image of the real thing.
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby davenq » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:32 pm

sorry to sound like a "dick" ,,,why is it mirror image ?...clutch master cyl. is on the rhs....or do you mean mirror image of lhd car>????
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby A112H » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:07 pm

No sounding like a dick Dave. Easy way to tell mate is that no matter LH or RH drive the wiper motor stays on the RH side of the car.
Well picked up woops
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby A112H » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:56 pm

Okay guys, we have come into a little bit of spare cash (x lotto win and new role at work with more $$$) and I am going to have a few grand to spend on the Coupe.
I want to go 4G63T, but I want some ideas before I lay out the $$$.
1, Should I go RVR front cut?
2, Is there enough room in a GC for a rear CAS - VR4/Evo1-3?
3, Is a DOHC 4G64 a good option to turbo later?
4, Does anyone make narrow block to supra 5 spd bell housings? ( I don't like the idea of a narrow box )
5, Anyone looked further into the Greatwall bell housings that are supposed to suit 63 to supra?

Basically I will have the dosh to get a front cut, gear box and a few other bits, it wont be running but it wil get sitting in the car so I can mess with it till I can find some more $$$'s (we all know the story, lol)

Thanks in advance for the help guys.
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby Superscan811 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:18 am

Unless your driving style is "dump and burn", and as whoops suggested earlier, use a starion block and gearbox and a twincam head and internals.

An RVR head with the CAS mounted on the cam gear (front of the engine), is the better option as there is then no need to massage or cut the firewall.

I might be able to help with an exhaust manifold and partly modded inlet manifold for a rear wheel drive setup.


I bought this lancer about 4 yrs ago up in Brisbane.
Image


The guy had started to do the twincam conversion on it but ran out of time and money.
Image


The exhaust manifold was custom made and supposed to have cost over $1500.
Image


The inlet manifold wasn't completed.
Image


Let me know if you are interested.

PS: the car was sold a while ago and the engine is going into the engine-less VR4 which I just bought.


Cheers.
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby A112H » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:44 am

Certainly interested in the exhaust manifold and maybe the inlet.
No dump and burn, this will be my "forever" car, I looked for it (the right one) for about 7 years and have owned it for about 5 now, no quick or ill thought out slap together here. Having said that, I will be looking at taking it into the odd hill climb and track day, these were my main concerns for the narrow gearbox.
So, I take it the RVR head will bolt up to the Starion block?
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby ted » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:08 pm

drop a 13b into it!Does it have to be a mitsi engine?
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Re: Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades

Postby woops » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:14 pm

The only reason for selecting the mitsubishi engines is due to the engines bolting in with no custom engine mounts or gearbox mounts needed. The custom work is only with the things attached to the engine such as inlet, exhuast and tailshaft making these better options for those not that handy or qualified to use a welder to make the mounts properly.
'72 GB Galant Sedan nanna spec daily
'85 GN Sigma Wagon 4g63 SOHC Turbo almost ready for the road
'74 GC Galant Coupe long term project
woops
 
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