Is my dizzy a tooth out? (pic)

[robbert]

Just after a bit of advice... Below is a pic of my distributor with engine at tdc. It has a locked dizzy with no rotor or leads on it. So I put on a spare rotor for the photo. It is a magna head and dizzy in my LA Lancer.

It pings where it is set in photo.



Can anyOne explain where the rotor should be pointing. Does it look to be a tooth out?

Also, what would be the effects of running it a tooth out. It has been like this since the day I bought it. Would it run the same because the adjustment is set to compensate it or would it have probs advancing.

Thanks

[geezer101]

I don't think it's out by a tooth or your distributor would either set to maximum advance or retard to just to get it to run. Going by the pic you have plenty of adjustment available. Have you pointed a timing light at it? First place to start. What do you mean by "locked"- does your distributor still have a vacuum advance on it?

[robbert]

I don't know what a locked dizzy is. It was in the for sale description under ignition. (below)

http://www.sigma-galant.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=6210

It does not have vacuum advance. I thought they have those weights to advance the timing.

And from memory, I thought the lock nut on dizzy would be 3/4 the way up when tuned, not down. But that memory was over 10 years ago, alot gone on since then.

[Billsy]

are you using the std magna ecu?

if so, have you bridged the diag pins and set the timing correctly as it states in the manual?

youve probably got it too far advanced... put better fuel in it if your not running 98 already and it might go away. aswell as get better mileage and economy from the extra timing it can take

[robbert]

Using ems8860. Not magna ecu. And use 98 premium fuel.

I guess I was hoping someone could compare it to theirs. Because when I put a dizzy cap with leads on it, one lead is almost centre to the plug on the top. But as it is now, when on top dead center, the rotor is not pointing to any lead.
It is fully advanced and pinging where it is sitting now, so it has more than 3/4 of adjustment in the advancing direction, and less than a 1/4 of adjustment in retarding direction. That is why I was thinking it was a tooth out. Ignore the white line, I put that there.

[81GL]

As above, have you got a timing light? If not, go somewhere that has one.

To answer your first question, does it look out? yeah, it does look like it "may" be a tooth out, but you really need to confirm that for your self...
If the rotor is no where near no1 when at TDC then move the dizzy back a tooth and see if it lines up?

But.... you still need to get a timing light on to it to know for sure what your looking at.

[Superscan811]

Cheers.

[robbert]

Thanks for that pic superscan, your a ledg. Here u go....



I knew something wasnt quite right. 50,000 kms with a tooth out.
I remember an engin I was playing with years ago, I had the dizzy a tooth out the other way to this one and the extractors were glowing red. It looked orsm. LOL

Thanks guys.

[A112H]

OMG robbert, you say superscan is a legend then you offer him that pig swill as a reward

[Superscan811]

Using ems8860. Not magna ecu.

Just check whether the ECU is set to rising or falling edge trigger.. That alone can send out the timing by up to 90 cam degrees.

OMG robbert, you say superscan is a legend then you offer him that pig swill as a reward

Not a problem.
Have to give the inlaws something to drink when they come over...

Cheers.

[robbert]

Sorry, didn't mean to be rude. VB is just the default aussie thanks.
Here is a real thanks

[geezer101]

OMG hope your inlaws either A: don't ever read that or B: have absolutely no sense of taste (literal or otherwise) or smell. That's just nasty... The JD's a more polite option

[robbert]

Using ems8860. Not magna ecu.

Just check whether the ECU is set to rising or falling edge trigger.. That alone can send out the timing by up to 90 cam degrees.


Cheers.

That rising/falling edge trigger stuff is pretty technical stuff. Just had a bit of a read bout it. If it is set to either rising or falling it won't make any difference to my dizzy being a tooth out. Right?

If it's a tooth out, it's a tooth out. Setting to rising or falling wouldn't require it to be a tooth out, would it?

[Superscan811]

That rising/falling edge trigger stuff is pretty technical stuff.

Pretty simple once you get the basic idea.
Think of it as turning on and off a light.
Rising edge is when you want something to happen just as you turn on the light.
Falling edge is when you want something to happen just as you turn off the light.

Setting to rising or falling wouldn't require it to be a tooth out, would it?

It could. the On/Off pulse in the EFI dizzy is roughly 50/50.
This means there is around a 90 crank degrees difference between Rising edge pulse and falling edge pulse. That's more than 1 tooth...

Cheers.

[Superscan811]

OMG hope your inlaws either A: don't ever read that or B: have absolutely no sense of taste (literal or otherwise) or smell. That's just nasty... The JD's a more polite option

One of my inlaws actually prefers VB..
Go Figure...

Cheers.

[81GL]

Out of curiosity, does the standard magna run rising or falling edge trigger?

VB...

[Superscan811]

Out of curiosity, does the standard magna run rising or falling edge trigger?

Not sure but I'd guess it's falling edge. There is less chance for electrical noise to cause an issue.
I'll check one today and confirm.

Cheers.

[81pw]

Hey rob I was wondering how u went with your timing cos Mine rotor is on tooth the other way. I put I timing light on it and it runs and idles good at 23 btdc. And I think my dizzy is out too. Let me no it u got yours to line up with the dizzy timing mark and is running. Many mines running on 3rd cylinder first.

[robbert]

Well I moved it a tooth so it was like the picture above. Tried to start my car and imploded my starter motor. Don't know WTF happened but it wasn't to good. So a new starter and moved it back a tooth to where it was.
I will play around with it more on the weekend. My car feels gutless and are hoping this is the problem. Will let u know how it goes.

Any one have a good 9 tooth starter for sale. My new old one won't work when it's hot.

[81pw]

I put it like the picture. Didn't run the best when it started but I earthed te timing connector and set it to 5 btdc. The very small miss at idle went away. But it's seem a bit gutless when I drive it and seems to rev high faster but the car goes no where. Then I retard the timing to 13 btdc with the timing connected to earth. It runs drives good but at idle I get a small miss. No air leaks. And new coil,dizzy,plugs and leads. Gonna put a new throttle body and o2 sensor see how it goes. My oil gets dirty very quick so I think my rings are stuffed maybe I have low compression in a cylinder giving me bad idle. Would retarding the timing compensate for something if it has bad compression or running rich or lean?

[BAD-SIG]

What about the dizzy on my stock-motor 1978 Astron 2000? What/where should my rotor button be pointing at when the engine is showing zero TDC on the crank pulley?

[geezer101]

What about the dizzy on my stock-motor 1978 Astron 2000? What/where should my rotor button be pointing at when the engine is showing zero TDC on the crank pulley?

There should be a small alignment mark stamped into the rim of dizzy cap seat on the distributor. When the distributor is installed, the centre of the rotor button should be aligned with this mark. You got another post going on this - the mark indicates TDC on #1 piston.

[BAD-SIG]

Thanks mate, I was hoping someone would post a photo for me, I've got two different factory workshop manuals and I couldn't find any info on either regarding which way the dizzy rotor button should be pointing and I couldn't see any marks on the dizzy either. I was very tired the last time I looked though, having worked on the car all by myself all weekend! I tryed starting the car and it sounded terrible, so I just left it for the next weekend, which is here today! I'll have a better look today after giving a bit of attention to the wife and kids first

[wah11]

I have just finished installing efi to a 2.6 astron in a Pajero, useing a wolf 3d v3.
I didnt install the magna dizzy because i couldnt work out the wiring code.
Can some tell me the correct wiring for the dizzy plug, and where to run the wires to, ie coil, ecu for crank angle, earth,
White?
Red?
Black?
Green?

Thanks
Adam

[wah11]

can anyone help me with the above question???????

[Superscan811]

Cheers.

[75glnt]

earth's usualy black. but i may be wrong in this case. but everything electrical ive ever worked on. earth is always black.

[wah11]

Thanks For the posts guys,
I have a copy of that wiring diagram,
what i would like help with is , do i run the black and red wires to the coil to replace the 2 wires running from the original distributor to the coil and the white and green to the ecu for the crank sensor trigger?
I am hoping somone that has already done this conversion can tell me?
Thanks
Adam

[Superscan811]

I have a copy of that wiring diagram,
what i would like help with is , do i run the black and red wires to the coil to replace the 2 wires running from the original distributor to the coil and the white and green to the ecu for the crank sensor trigger?
I am hoping somone that has already done this conversion can tell me?

All roads lead to ROME and in this case, all sensor connections go to the ECU.

It's the ECU that will fire the coil, not the CAS (Crank/Cam Angle Sensor).



Cheers.

[wah11]

another question,
My wolf ECU only requires one trigger from the sensors.
do i use the crank angle or the top dead center sensor?