Sirius 4G62B 1.8T into GK GSR - it begins

[Shifta]

I put a few feelers out for info over the past coupla weeks regarding this conversion and most didn't know what a 4G62B was so I thought I'd start a thread with the details. A quick bit of background first.

The History
Years ago I had a GE wagon that I bought with this weird 1.8 litre imported motor in it. Was pretty slow but thought it had potential so gave it a home. Over a few years the motor had a rebuild with Hypatech pistons and a bunch of goodies thrown at it including 13Bt injectors, RB25 Turbo and Supra intercooler. The small motor never made anything that impressive on the dyno ( around 130kw at the wheels from memory ) but I had fun in the car and it ran flat 14's down the quarter. The car was sold years ago and the motor and all the gear has sat in the shed since.

Present day
I've been looking for a donor car for years but as I have too many projects just never got round to it. Saw a GK GSR for sale a while back and went and had a look. It was pretty rough but the guy was adamant it was a good genuine car so I bought it. Little did I know the car was gonna cost me a lot of time and effort and was not the "good car" the owner and his dad pretended it was. I've spent the past 4 weeks cleaning it up and fixing umpteen little things wrong. I was weighing up options of selling it, keeping it and keeping it original, or keeping it and doing the conversion. What has convinced me was the SA cruise on the weekend - the car drove great and I've managed to turn it into a nice cruiser, but the motor was blowin quite a bit of smoke ( possible valve stem seals as compression is sweet in all 4 ). So decision made, the Astron is coming out and the Sirius is going in.

The swap begins
Tonight I rearranged the shed and started pullin stuff off the car. I made good progress and got the box out so I can try and sort out what's needed. Straight away I can see the difference in the boxes. Below are some pics of the engine bay with the Astron, the Sirius motor I'll be swapping it for, the tailshafts I had in the shed and the gearboxes.

The engine bay with the Astron:


The Sirius motor:


The original GK box in the foreground, the box that was in my GE is the top one:


From bottom of pic - the original GK shaft, a spare I had that looks to be the same length and stud pattern, and a third one that is shorter and won't bolt to diff:


I need to sort out the gearbox/tailbox combo and from previous advice I need to sort a cable clutch, narrow block Jap 5 speed. It's disappointing to have two gearboxes sitting there that I can't use . The car itself is set up for a cable clutch but the box from my old GE is setup for a hydraulic. The clutch forks are on opposite sides of the boxes too. Also need to sort out the tailshift situation so a few things to work out. Will update the thread with progress along the way.

[ISKA8]

looks like your in a bit of trouble with the gearboxes??tell me.does the jap 5speed bolt up to the sirus??are you able to change "say" bellhousings and so forth??
anyway good luck with it all mate and i hope all goes well.

[webby]

ISKA8- Jap boxes have integral bellhousings so no swappie. It'll bolt to a narrowblock 'box though
Question: Why not just go with a hyd clutch in this car too? Should be as simple as drilling a few holes and getting some hardlines made up?
Good luck mate, I've been looking at this conversion for my GE so I'll be interested to see how it turns out

[Shifta]

It's interesting though as the motor itself is an import so you would think that the box that matches is "Jap". Strange how the early sigmas have the shifter hole in a different spot and have shorter boxes. The irony is that I pulled the Sirius motor and box out all those years ago, and dropped an Astron and 5 speed straight in to the GE when I sold it - they all bolted up no worries. The astron was in a GB Galant wagon at the time. Must have just got lucky back then!

I'll do the Hyrdaulic conversion if that's the only thing stopping me, just a shame the box doesn't bolt straight up like the motor does. The Sirius motor is on an engine stand at the momement so I'm thinking of getting both motors on the ground with gearboxes handy and seeing what bolts up to what. Probably know more by the weekend .

[webby]

the difference in overall 'box length is due to different extension housings between GE-GH and GJ-on afaik, the 'box case itself should be the same length or at least so close it doesn't matter

[Astron Boy]

Why don't you do the same as the Starion boys and bolt on a... I think it's a 1jz engine box? or a mazda 13b engine box?
Those do have removable bells, and there is a bell you can buy to match up.

However, that is going on the basis of using the g63b wideblock, which you don't have.........

just might make it an easier conversion if you go starion block however....

Edit:hmm, just looking at the shots of the engine again, have rwd setup...

[Shifta]

Yeah I was hoping for a simple swap - the motor, box, and tailshaft combo are all rear wheel drive and literally bolt straight into a GE Sigma with no fuss at all. I was hoping for the same with the GK but the extension housing issue mentioned above is the only thing stopping me! The motor doesn't have a heap of grunt so I don't want to throw a heap of cash getting a decent box I don't really need. Still spewin I have two gearboxes sitting there I can't use! .

There was a thread a while back about the guy at Strathalbyn who had a heap of Siggy and Galant stuff. I reckon I'll give him a call and see what he's got gearbox wise.

[tango76hardtop]

will a jap 5 speed off an astron 2litre bolt to the motor as they are narrow block boxes

[Shifta]

I've been thinking bout this all day and finally managed to get out in the shed just now to have a look. I took the photo of the gearboxes last night quickly and only compared the length. I had this weird feeling that the bell housings looked similar. Just now went out and braved the cold rainy night to take another look. I could be being overly optimitstic, but the gearbox I just pulled out of the GK looks to have the same bellhousing as the one from the GE!! I even got out the tape measure and measured the holes and also the depth of the shaft with the bearing all the way - looks good! So with that in mind, in the next coupla days I'm gonna try and bolt the original GK box to the Sirius motor and cross my fingers. If it works, I'll be cheering!!! Here's a pic I just took of the two showing the similarities:



I won't say which box is which - can anyone tell the difference from this angle....? . The reverse light plug is the same and so are the mounting spots for the cross member. If the original GK box fits, so will the tailshaft - will be double cheering! Not sure what the deal with the clutch will be so will check that out once the Astron is out.

[webby]

GK 'box on the left

[A112H]

Hydraulics on the R/H box as we look at them is a give away

[Astron Boy]

Given the FWD KM210 box is a direct bolt on between the Astron and Sirius narrow blocks, one would assume that the RWD boxes be a bolt on between the wideys...

But that is only a guess.

apart from the 2 bolt holes that are close to each other on the left hand side, you seem to have a perfect bolt for bolt hole line up between the 2.

[Shifta]

Ha ha, maybe I should have taken the photo from a different angle to make it harder . The two holes on the left do look a little closer on the GK box - will measure them up tonight and check it out....

[Shifta]

Ok, so a "quick check to see if box fits" turned into a 4 hour back breaking session tonight. First up had to get the Sirius motor off the engine stand and where I normally hang my block and tackle has a car in the way so I had to improvise. Big block of timber propping up the workshop roof while lifting the motor up and it was all good. Next bit of grief came when I went to bolt the Flywheel onto to the motor - dam bolts didn't want to line up. Finally sussed it, then realised I didn't have the correct clutch aligning tool so I had to modify a Colt one ( professional duct tape mod ) and then proceeded to try the GK box on the Sirius motor. After endless tries and some realigning of the clutch, SUCCESS! Here's a pic - ha ha, just realised you can see the timber in the picture :



So I've learnt something - the 1.8 Sirius block and the 2.6 Astron blocks must be the same width. Good news for anyone considering a similar conversion. The effort was worth it as now putting the box back in the car should be straight forward and for now I can use the standard tailshaft . Plenty more work to do but so far the project is proceeding well.

[Astron Boy]

Awesome work!
One less headache at-least!

[astronturbo77]

sorry to say but this gearbox fitment issues is old news a good search would have found you answers. starion and cordia engiens are wide block sirus engines and any wide block jap 5 speed will bolt up, if you use a starion 5 speed (they are wide) the boxe is stronger and has hydraulic clutch. just use starion engine mounts and it will bolt into your siggy. by the way you do realise you have a aftermarket turbo and l300 van intake manifold on that engine? what ecu are you running?

[woops]

The starion 4g63 engines are all wide block. The cordia engines 4g62 and 4g63 DASH engines are definitely all narrow block but a 2L sigma gearbox will bolt up all the same. Thats why the cordia's can have the 4g63 DOHC engines just bolt straight in. All the FWD or AWD 4g6* engines are narrow bolt up such as the early FWD NA and AWD vr4 galants and early sonata 2L DOHC and 2.4L SOHC. I'm 90% sure that all the 4g6* RWD engines are wide block such as the starion, L200 utes and the L300 vans. Not positive if the auto/narrow and manual/wide policy applies for the l200 and l300 such as they do in the sigma 4g54. i Wouldn't think there would be many autos though in those vehicles.

[woops]

I would think the turbo would be pretty obvious considering it's got a massive Nissan on the front of it. Also just so you know the L300 manifold can have a XF throttle body bolt on easily by just opening up the holes a little on the throttle body. Also you need to fill in that groove on the top of the throttle body mount on the manifold and bore out the hole for the throttle body size. I had one set up on my starion engine in the sigma. The thing i found though is that the throttle was really touchy due to the throttle body size but it is an simple option if you find that to be a power limitation for you.

[Shifta]

Thanks for the comments guys. I had the setup in a GE wagon for years so yeah, I know the details . I first bought my old wagon with the L300 Injection conversion already done - prior to that it had the Single Point injection like on factory Starions. The car actually had a Delco computer running the injection for some reason ( think Camira ) but it had specific software that could only be tuned by one workshop. A quick and easy upgrade at the time was a Haltech E6GM - a Haltech specificaly designed to plug straight into a holden ( the delco ) wiring loom so I went with that. Lucky for me a mate works with Haltechs and got me the laptop cable and disk. I never actually needed them though as not long before taking it off the road I installed 13BT injectors ( after the rebuild and RB25 Turbo conversion ) and had it dynoed so they tuned the Haltech for me. I didn't have any problems with the throttle body or anything. The only change I'm gonna make this time is to keep the boost back at 15psi ( I was running 18 before ) and upgrade my fuel system ( I wasn't running a surge tank in the GE ).

So back onto the project. Another productive night in the shed with several hours workin. Disconnecting everything in the engine bay took longer than I thought and what surpised was the air con unit still had gas in it when I disconnected the lines. After a few hours of prep, Astron out and Sirius in. Late night call to a mate to get help lifting and pushing cars around but now all is good. Here's a pic just before I packed it in - lots of room in the bay now



Might have a night off tomorrow as been flat out working on her this week! Still plenty of work to do but I reckon I'll bolt the gearbox back in Saturday then take my time with the rest - stoked most of the heavy/dirty work is out the way .

[4g63galant]

Its looking good, getting there.

[Shifta]

Wasn't gonna head out to the shed tonight but changed my mind. Just a coupla beers and some simple work tonight. Pulled all the aircon gear off the front and roughly sized up where the intercooler will go. Also got the car jacked up ready of the box to go back in tomorrow. Another pic below showing all the front off ( also showing my jealous Fastback in the background as I'm working on the sigma instead ).

[Shifta]

And on a side note, I'm pretty sure this is one of the cars that came out with a 4G62B standard - an 84 Import RWD Lancer :



I took this photo many years ago, 5 mins from my house where a small importer used to be - he got the car from NZ. I wonder where the car ended up.....

[webby]

I daresay your motor and 'box actually came from one of those, being wideblock

[A112H]

Nice work mate, coming along well. I always liked the turbo Lancers, a bit small but cool, a mini Sigma

[Shifta]

Yeah, it's all coming back to me now - I reckon that is definitely the type of car and that's why I took the photo . The photo was taken at Lonsdale in SA - I never saw that car again . I'd love to know if those Scorpion mags were put on in Oz or whether they were factory on the Lancers! I only recently found out that the standard 69-71 SS Colt Hubcaps were the same as standard a51 Galant hubbies and I've been researching the Colts for years!

[A112H]

Pretty sure the 1800 GSR's came with the GH/J Scorpion style wheels
Like these

I have never seen a EX with the GE Scorpion style wheels before.

[Shifta]

Mate, I reckon I you're spot on! I just re-checked my picture stash and found this clapped out Uk version of the lancer - same rims

[Shifta]

Fairly productive weekend considering the crazy weather and amount of rain we had. My dream run of luck finally ended and have come across a few hurdles I'm working through. Saturday morning a mate came round to help me put the box back in. She went in fairly easy and proceeded to bolt it all up nicely. Starter Motor went in no worries and motor turned over which is a good sign. First obstacle encountered was the Clutch lever being on the opposite side to the old box. I was planning on using the old 3inch dump off the back of the Turbo as it's still in good nick and has the oxygen sensor plumbed in. Went to bolt it on and found the Clutch fork bolts rest on the exhaust. Tried a few things ( insert hammer here ) but didn't have much luck so the dump is at a mates place now and he's gonna try to heat it up and see if he can mod it slightly. If not I'll need to get a new one made. I figured the exhaust from a GE wagon would be fairly different to the GK but decided to check it out anyway - the middle section is Mandrel bent and the exhaust was made in 3 sections so is easy to work with. Lined it all up and found it is really close, but the bend over the diff was a no go. Muffler and middle section may still be usable. I think I'll be able to get it modified enough to save myself from needing a whole new exhaust but I'll weigh that up once I know whether the dump pipe is gonna work.

Next small glitch was the Alternator is on the opposite side to the Astron. It makes sense to have the the thing close to the wiring loom like it was with the Astron but apparently Mitsubishi thought otherwise with this motor! Went to UPI and cut the original wires out of another car so I could keep them the same colour and diameter but make them long enough to reach the new position. Soldered the wires together and managed to feed them up along the ridge above the radiator and down the right side - not a bad job in the end. Went to wire the thing up - different Alternator! The one with the motor is a Mitsubishi and has an external Regulator. The GK one is Bosch and has the regulator as part of the unit. Pulled the Alternator off the Astron and found the mounting holes are further apart so I needed to use the lower bolt from the Astron, but that was too thick to go through the mounting hole in the the Sirius block. Luckily I had the whole front off so was able to get a drill in easy enough and make the hole bigger. A couple of spacers lately and the Bosch Alternator is on and the standard GK Alternator wiring ( now longer ) was able to wire up.

Last task for the weekend was taking a look at the wiring for the Haltech. I gave myself a present when I pulled it out of the GE in that I cut the whole loom out and left the Haltech wires attached to the standard sigma ones. Here's what I found when I emptied my wiring box :



When I started this project I'd been ready to concede that I would need help with the wiring but now I'm half confident I may be able to do it myself. The plan is to strip back the GE loom and find out which wires the Haltech is attached to, then find out what those wires are on a GE, then hopefully find the equivalent ones on the GK. I've got a GE manual and now thanks to Mike have a GK manual so I'm hoping this week I may be able to have a go at it . If the Sigma gods are smiling on me and I can get most of the exhaust sorted and electrics done, the only thing left will be the intercooler mount and plumbing and I'll be boosting again

[Astron Boy]

Nice work.
Good to see you still have the old Colt

[Shifta]

Ha ha, yeah the old Colts may get snobbed occasionally but they'll always have a home at my place . My poor 68 Sedan is sleeping in the carport for now while the GSR is taking up the spot in the shed!

Quick project update - got the dump pipe back and still didn't fit. A couple more tries and some persuasion with a hammer and all is good now. Bolted that on, made sure the clutch clears and then bolted the main part of the exhaust up. Just need to modify the hanger mid-car and now have a 3inch zorst till just before the diff. Should be good enough to get the car running and will get the back half and muffler sorted later on. Gonna attack the Haltech wiring in the next day or two.