84GKSIG Build EFI plus more

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84GKSIG Build EFI plus more

Postby 84GKSIG » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:44 pm

Ok so where do i start, i own an 1984 GK sigma XL that came from factory as a :
2.0 liter
4 spd jap manual, with
blue vinyl seats
blue carpet
blue dash, with a clock instead of a tacho which later on became faulty and decided to flatten my battery
and no rear window demister or air conditioning.

The car has now been off the road since the end of 2008 originally because of a cracked head which I was just going to just replace until I ran into a sale on ebay for a EFI magna manifold which then sparked some curiosity and fuel for some google :google: searches which brought me to an EFI thread on sigma galant.

So then in my head I played with the idea of doing an EFI conversion, should I shouldn't I, I couldn't make my mind up, that was till i purchased a set of pepper pots off a forum member and seen the EFI system functioning in his car and thats when I made my decision... :thumpsup: EFI

After doing some research and getting some relay good information from EFI threads and talking directly to forum members who've already done the conversion I think its my turn now.

M.B :thumpsup: let the fun begin
Last edited by 84GKSIG on Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby TVM006 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:53 pm

LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING WHAT YOU HAVE DONE AND ARE GOING TO DO!
:thumpsup: :thumpsup: :thumpsup: :thumpsup:
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 84GKSIG » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:56 pm

This is what the SIG looked like with the pepper pots, its not looking like this at the moment, the guards have been taken off to repair some rust and damage underneath them and the car is destined for another respray (due to cheep acrylic paint pitting) hopefully by the end of this year or early next year if all goes well and if all goes better than possibly even earlier :thumpsup:

Image

and some pics of the EFI donor car, was lucky enough to get this really cheep

Image

Image
engine, trans and EFI gear as well as loom and ecu have been removed and cars already been sent away, i kept some spares for my daily driver which is also a 1991 TR magna

M.B :thumpsup:
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby ISKA8 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:16 pm

good luck with it all mate,mine was a ball breaker,ESPECIALLY when i went turbo..i hate wiring!!!lol
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 84GKSIG » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:34 pm

ISKA8 wrote:good luck with it all mate,mine was a ball breaker,ESPECIALLY when i went turbo..i hate wiring!!!lol


lol cheers mate :thumpsup: so is yours turbo at the moment?
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 84GKSIG » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:01 pm

Alright so while the engine was on the stand the plenum was sent away (as many of you know) to have its ends swapped around.
During that time various bits and pieces were sourced, 5 speed jap box( wide pattern ) and a set of pace maker extractors.
thanks to GB_BB4C for looking out :thumpsup:

originally i would of liked to of had a narrow jap 5 speed just purely because it felt like the easy bolt up option but coming to grips with reality, these boxes are not so easy to find there for i searched around for a place that could drill and tap the block for the wide pattern box to suit, only problem was the motor i had was reconditioned ( bearings, piston rings, head and timing chain kit at the very least ) and only did about 12,000 thousand kms pretty much every place i asked here in Adelaide wanted the block to be totally bare and i wasn't gonna rip apart an engine that i considered to still be fresh, so thats now been put aside as a spare for the daily driver :thumpsup: so off to search for a wide pattern engine which was then found at u pull it along with a reconditioned radiator and near new clutch kit fitted and with the added bonus of it being an already reconditioned astron 2 so double thumbs up to that :thumpsup: :thumpsup:

so hears the plenum and the extractors all cleaned and painted with the appropriate heat resistant paints.
Image
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Before looking like this these probably had a good 22-23 years worth of dirt, sand and rust baked to them, but a couple of hours with the wire wheel and some sand paper and paint, I think there looking quite a lot better than what they did before
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Last edited by 84GKSIG on Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 84GKSIG » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:12 pm

Ok so after spending some time running around for bits and pieces and changing ideas here and there and trying to sort out how things are gonna happen in the engine bay I thought the best thing to do before respraying the engine bay would be to work out where everything's going to be going, brackets, battery and air filter and possibly relocating various bits and pieces so i thought to my self. ill just do a "mock" fit of the engine and surrounding components just to double check and make sure everything I want including the air conditioning is all gonna fit without giving me grief.

well here are some pics of the mock fit so far and various other bits :thumpsup:

power steering rack has been installed along with a new pitman arm and new idler arm bushings
once its time for the engine to go in properly all mounts and hoses will be replaced :thumpsup:

Image

love the look of the pace makers
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Vp commodore filter box
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Image

TR Magna comparison
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roughly cut to size
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in the engine bay, accelerator cable changed over to the TR magna one and some engine bay wiring begins

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nice and easy mount for the Throttle cable
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51 mm hole cut into the firewall to feed the wiring through to the ecu and Magna charcoal canister fitted
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the dashboard is about to come out and get replaced with a fresh un-cracked one as well as replacing the heater core and installing the air conditioner evaporator :thumpsup: pics still to come, car isnt garaged at the moment so am very weather reliant at the moment and I've tried to do bits and pieces in between

M.B :thumpsup:
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 84GKSIG » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:36 pm

alright so since the engines reconditioned and the head has been re-done i don't really wanna go taking it off to fit the Magna head (just yet) and as you know the astron 2 sigma head a small water port at the back of the head where the Magna one has both large ports so the only way here to not have to go replacing heads just so rear port on the manifold matches up to the head is to

A make an adapter plate
B weld up port on the manifold and drill it out to suit, or
C scream at it really loudly and hope that its fixed by the morning lol

I chose A ill make an adapter plate since it looks easy enough and the materials wont cost me anything

5.42 mm thick aluminum plate
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Image

test fit onto a spare head
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Image

near finished in this pic but has since been neatened up and intake holes have been matched to the diameter of those on the head :thumpsup:
Image

M.B :thumpsup: I thought id post some updates of my progress till now in separate posts just to not confuse my self :roll:
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 13bsigma » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:23 am

nice work man. . i just got a little bit welded onto my manifold to cover the water whole ;) but that prob would be a better solution :)
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1978 GE sigma 87,000kms spare parts for the toy
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1996 suzuki baleno GTX. getting shaved and resprayed soon and receiving turbo engine
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby Cottees » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:09 pm

Looking good. If you don't mind me asking, where did you get the plenum modded? and how much? Looks very well done. Thinking of swapping the ends around on my Plenum for when I convert my Sigma to turbo.
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 84GKSIG » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:10 pm

13bsigma wrote:nice work man. . i just got a little bit welded onto my manifold to cover the water whole ;) but that prob would be a better solution :)

cheers mate :thumpsup: I would of liked to of done that too, but Id like to have a nice high flow of coolant when I upgrade to the later magna head with the bigger port

Cottees wrote:Looking good. If you don't mind me asking, where did you get the plenum modded? and how much? Looks very well done. Thinking of swapping the ends around on my Plenum for when I convert my Sigma to turbo.


thanks man :thumpsup: the pelnum was modded at graves engineering and it cost around the $100 - $130, that was for them to sand blast it, cut the ends off, and weld them on opposite sides, would of probably been cheaper had I supplied it to them with the ends already cut off :P next time ill cut and weld it my self with those aluminum braising rods, we'll soon see weather ill have to paint strip it and cut an inch or two out the runners if the Throttle body on the front now decides to foul on any thing
M.B :thumpsup:
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 13bsigma » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:06 am

84GKSIG wrote:cheers mate I would of liked to of done that too, but Id like to have a nice high flow of coolant when I upgrade to the later magna head with the bigger port


oh well its the opposite way around for me then as i had the bigger magna head and was using a older inlet manifold, so i welded a bit on the manifold is what i ment :)
1978 GE sigma 57,000kms the toy called silvia. comming to the Gold Coast soon.
1978 GE sigma 87,000kms spare parts for the toy
1996 suzuki baleno turbo. $32,000 invested in it. $22,000 in the engine. $10,000 in sound
1996 suzuki baleno GTX. getting shaved and resprayed soon and receiving turbo engine
1980 GH sigma AKA JET.51G 18 PSI of T04 injected power.
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 84GKSIG » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:14 am

13bsigma wrote:
84GKSIG wrote:cheers mate I would of liked to of done that too, but Id like to have a nice high flow of coolant when I upgrade to the later magna head with the bigger port


oh well its the opposite way around for me then as i had the bigger magna head and was using a older inlet manifold, so i welded a bit on the manifold is what i ment :)


oh, got cha :thumpsup:
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby milotan » Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:08 pm

what are you going to do to get the oxygen sensor working for the efi computer as the pacemaker
does not have a mounting point?
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 84GKSIG » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:40 pm

milotan wrote:what are you going to do to get the oxygen sensor working for the efi computer as the pacemaker
does not have a mounting point?


Well for this I'm going to be drilling a hole and welding a o2 sensor bung to the extractors.
Image

At the moment I'm doing some research on the single wire oxygen sensors for the best point to mount them to and I've found that they require quite a bit of heat to start functioning and sending mixture readings to the ecu. The single wire o2 sensor gets its heat from the exhaust (non heated).

8-) Ok so There are various types of o2 sensors. 1 wire (signal) 2 wire (reference ground and signal wire) 3 wire (B+,reference ground and signal wire) 4 wire ( ground(B-), B+,reference ground and signal wire) and a 5 wire with diagnostic wire being the only addition.

Image

Point A and point B in this picture would seem like 2 of the most logical spots to be mounting the sensor how ever, if mounted at point A the sensor will only be taking a reading from 2 cylinders, and I see this as a potential problem if one of the other cylinders start leaning out for some reason as the ecu wont pick up the problem. (dependent on ecu)

So then that leaves us with point B how ever this is a lot further away there for may take longer for the sensor to start sending readings (or may not function at all?) to the ecu. (The ecu may throw an error code or run in "limp " mode because of this, once again depending on what ecu your running) So in conclusion to the above, point B with a heated o2 sensor seems like the way to go as it will be taking a reading from all 4 cylinders.

A heated o2 sensor heats up in seconds without relying on its position in the exhaust system and starts sending readings to the ecu immediately, and from what I understand they are far more accurate and could possibly improve power and economy at the same time because of this.

If your not too fussed how ever then point A would be the best spot for a single wire o2 sensor. :thumpsup: My only question is.

Does every o2 sensor work the same way sending readings regardless of whether its a heated sensor or not? ie I/O switch type o2 sensors? narrow band sensors? wide band sensors? either way ill be experimenting on my daily driver with various sensors and motoring things closely (H)

M.B :thumpsup:
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby Astron Boy » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:50 pm

As an insight, factory Magna EFI reads only off 2 cylinders to begin with, so point A is acceptable.
However, if going after market, Point B with a 4 wire would be more suited.
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 84GKSIG » Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:06 pm

ok so a little more progress today, may not be much but its better than nothing.

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started polishing the rocker cover just roughly to see what it would look like and how it would come up

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pump is ready and waiting to be installed gave it a clean as well, still waiting on the surge tank

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found this little grommet for the loom

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here it is doing its thing like its meant to :thumpsup: i know its just a grommet but i was fussy as hell when it came to this little thing just ask TVM006

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here you can see the battery now mounted on the left side of the engine bay on a bracket thats a :thumpsup: n exact mirror image of the one on the right hand side that i made my self by making a stencil out of paper and cut my self out of 2mm steel then just roughly welded to the car

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magna power steering fluid reservoir between the radiator and battery

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earth lead all ready to be connected to the block.. when that time comes ;-)

M.B :thumpsup:
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby TVM006 » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:07 pm

Going along very nicely!

Yes, i can verify that 84GKSIG was a little WHACK! when it came to the grommet issue. :facepalm:

Oi dude so whats the deal with magna power steering stuff? does it connect to the sigma box?
:thumpsup: :thumpsup: :thumpsup: :thumpsup:
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 84GKSIG » Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:25 pm

Cheers man :thumpsup:

TVM006 wrote:Oi dude so whats the deal with magna power steering stuff? does it connect to the sigma box?
:thumpsup: :thumpsup: :thumpsup: :thumpsup:


Well what can I say, I'm using the original sigma power steering pump. After having a look at the magna pump a little better i cant see why it coulden't be used.
Of course your going to have to be willing to mix and match fittings on ends of hoses and change to the magna harmonic balancer and aircon pulley as the magna pump uses a different belt and it looks as though the pulley on the pump is press fitted :\

Astron Boy wrote:As an insight, factory Magna EFI reads only off 2 cylinders to begin with


really? on the tr exhaust manifold the o2 sensor seems to have flow from all 4 cylinders, unless its determined by the ecu? or is it different on older magnas? some one?

M.B :thumpsup:
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby ISKA8 » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:35 pm

looking very nice indeed bro..
oh and as for you question on the start of the post,YES ive gone turbo..still a headache.lol
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby astronturbo77 » Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:42 pm

bloody neat efi conversion so far mate! keep it up
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby TUFSIG » Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:08 am

the black inlet manifold looks really good
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 84GKSIG » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:41 pm

Today the weather wasn't too bad compared to other days so I decided to push as get as much done as I could possible

dash came out as well as the heater core and everything else that lives in the dash
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heater core back in with new valve, air con evaporator and blower motor all back in, with new sponge seals so it wont flake off and go in your eyes when you turn the aircon on
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EFI loom squeezing through
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as time has been going by I've been preparing my self with bits and pieces like filters and fluids and gaskets so when the time comes for them to be used I don't have to go chasing
random parts and can still keep working once stores are shut.

Fluids
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Clutch, gaskets and pump I'm gonna be using to feed the surge tank
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and, Filters, thermostat and Plugs and the collection continues to grow recently added, brand new engine mounts
Image

hopefully tomorrow dash goes back in, and by the way thanks for your comments guys! :thumpsup: :thumpsup: :thumpsup: :thumpsup:
M.B :thumpsup:
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby milotan » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:33 pm

Where did you get the new valve for your heater unit?
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby Superscan811 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:40 pm

84GKSIG wrote:.... and pump I'm gonna be using to feed the surge tank....
I would STRONGLY recommend you use a gear pump instead of that one.
The solenoid style pumps work fine, but can be VERY noisy.

Apart from that, everything seems to be coming along nicely.


Cheers.
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 84GKSIG » Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:31 pm

I would STRONGLY recommend you use a gear pump instead of that one.
The solenoid style pumps work fine, but can be VERY noisy.

Apart from that, everything seems to be coming along nicely.


Cheers mate, I realize these pumps can be a little loud and even louder again when mounted incorrectly. (directly to the body)
This pump will only be used temporarily till the cars back on the road (probably some time next year by the looks) how ever I may not even worry.

I ended up making up a bracket with some C channel the width of the base of the pump and then stretching 2 layers of (re-enforced) rubber matting over the opening of the C channel and then mounting the pump to the rubber with steel re-enforcement on the back and from the inside of the car all you really hear is a slight purr unless the tank is dead empty then it works as an indicator on when to fill up :lol: :thumpsup: other than that the engine noise covers it up really.
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M.B :thumpsup:
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 84GKSIG » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:21 pm

Ok so here we go, this is the point im at right now, working out wiring and placement of objects in the engine bay still so everything's just a mess and just sitting in there pretty much.

http://s541.photobucket.com/albums/gg38 ... ugh001.mp4

http://s541.photobucket.com/albums/gg38 ... hrough.mp4

still have to organize a couple bits and pieces, ring gear, thermal fans, exhaust (shooting out extractors at the moment) and a couple sensor locations, but no point rushing and messing things up.
It will happen eventually!

For my birthday I wanted to be able to go out to the shed and start the car, the night before my birthday I worked on the car till about 11pm just checking through wiring making sure pumps were working and all the bits and pieces were functioning individually.

Morning of my birthday I got up :thumpsup:
went to the bathroom :thumpsup:
went outside :thumpsup:
connected the battery :thumpsup:
turned the key :thumpsup: and holy crap, wasn't expecting for it to start first shot, could only run it for a fiew seconds due to there not being any radiator as you can see! :lol: scared the crap outa me in a good way :D im glad I went to the bathroom first :thumpsup:

M.B :thumpsup:
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby camB » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:00 pm

Congratulations on the startup! Nice kind of surprise.
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 84GKSIG » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:45 pm

cheers mate (H) :thumpsup: lots more to do now though before I even consider the car close to being finished.
Once the whole basic EFI set up is done I'm gonna be able to rest and then begin body work, thankfully its not much but I'm defiantly not looking forward to striping the whole car back to bare metal, we shall see what happens though.

M.B :thumpsup:
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Re: 84GKSIG slow build - EFI

Postby 84GKSIG » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:03 am

Finlay had some time, so I put together a list of what has to be done and ticking off everything that so far has been done.

so one thing I was having issues with was the condition of my ring gear on my flywheel. from memory the car I pulled the engine out of was running a tr magna starter motor which ended up eating teeth off sections of the ring gear, hopefully the picture will be better at explaining.

Image
this flywheel had this in 4 spots exactly the same thing and caused the proper sigma starter to not engage.. so out comes the gearbox, off comes the clutch that was still in ok condition and off comes the flywheel and the journey to find another ring gear began.
Image

All I can say here is don't use TR magna starter motors :hit: there different

here's the new second handy all machined and ready to go do what it was designed to do ..
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clutch and pressure plate, pressure plate still with its coating of rust preventative
Image

tell you what. was good fun laying under the car while its up on ramps dropping the gear box and taking out the flywheel and fitting the new one.. im just happy its all sorted out now (H) means I can actually start my car.
as we speak im just waiting on the intake manifold to come back.

I used the astron 2 head which comes on the gn sigma which have the smaller rear coolant port and the big front one, now to adapt the manifold to the head I made up the adapter plate which is up above and does the job nicely, but this also means that the flow of water in the rear of the head to the thermostat is too low for it to be any good. there for the manifold is being modded so the thermostat can sit up front in the position factory intended it to :thumpsup: will post up pics once its all done and installed back in the car.

M.B :thumpsup:
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