Triton Engine rebuild.

[Superscan811]

The triton blew a head gasket last week, while I was towing yet another sigma home. I was still able to limp home, with car and trailer still attached..

The Damage...


A friend gave me a loan motor but it doesn't want to play nice either.

The end result is I'm rebuilding mine.


As this is needs to be a reliable daily, I'm just doing a few minor improvements.

Lightened the Triton crank (it's been factory nitrided...). It's off being balanced currently.


New +20 Standard M8 piston (balanced).
Bore, hone and deck block.
Standard rods with ARP rod bolts (balanced).
ARP Main and Head Studs.
New bearings.
M8 head had already been shaved 2.5mm, but it's just getting skimmed to level it.

Waiting on the lightened flywheel and organic clutch package to arrive from NPC Performance in Brisbane.


Cheers.

[Scorpma82]

How much is all the balancing/machining costing u Scan?

[Superscan811]

How much is all the balancing/machining costing u Scan?

$120 to balance the crank.
$300 to bore hone deck the block and skim the head.

It's not all that expensive if you can find the right workshop.


Cheers.

[bruggz351]

Bad luck on the break down Ss.

At least your going to have a nice fresh motor after.

Handy to get good prices on machine work too.

cheers

[Scorpma82]

the machining is alot cheaper that i originally first thought actually

i was expecting up around about 1000 dollars

[Superscan811]

Bad luck on the break down Ss.

At least your going to have a nice fresh motor after.

The engine has done 389,000ks. The bores were fine but when I checked the ring gap, it was nearly 3mm. It was also using a bit of oil etc.. hence the decision to rebuild.

Picking up my rally car and trailer from Melbourne in a fortnight, so I'll need the Ute to be running well by then.

All the machining will be finished on Friday so the rebuild and install will take place over the weekend, I hope...

the machining is alot cheaper that i originally first thought actually

i was expecting up around about 1000 dollars

One place wanted $600 just to bore, hone and deck the block... Definitely a good case for "Let your fingers do the walking"..

Cheers.

[bruggz351]

Wow, it was in the offing then.
The donk has done well, only slack rings at that age.
How did the crank mic up ? ;edit; Sorry, just re-read your first post. as you were..

cheers

[Superscan811]

Wow, it was in the offing then.
The donk has done well, only slack rings at that age.

I could have gotten away with a new set of rings and bearings, but a full rebuild was the better choice I believe.

How did the crank mic up ? ;edit; Sorry, just re-read your first post. as you were..

I had the crank linished as well and it's on the bottom side of standard (approx .002" under) but still perfectly ok.

Speaking of which, the crank originally weighed 18.4kgs, it now weighs 15.8kgs. around 2/3 of this weight was removed from the outer edge, so it should help it spin up a bit quicker, that along with a flywheel thats' 1/3 the weight of a standard one...



Cheers.

[bruggz351]

Just thinking out loud here Superscan.

How will that weight reduction affect towing performance

I know it will make for a snappier engine, but won't that kind of weight reduction in a workhorse cause issues with endurance...??
e.g. keeping a certain speed up an incline.

cheers

[Scorpma82]

i wouldn't think so bruggz......if anything..it'll help the engine


he's removing excess strain on the engine.....so the engine can produce the same amount of performance and power....and now have some left in reserve

[Superscan811]

Just thinking out loud here Superscan.

How will that weight reduction affect towing performance

I know it will make for a snappier engine, but won't that kind of weight reduction in a workhorse cause issues with endurance...??
e.g. keeping a certain speed up an incline.

cheers

Since the engine only has to "Push" less INTERNAL weight, it will entirely depend on what gear you are in, as to how easy to maintain your speed up hill. The weight removed from the crank and flywheel, has almost no effect in 4th and 5th gear, no matter what you are doing, it just allows the engine to spin quicker. In 4th and 5th gear, it's the car's momentum, not the engines, that is the larger determining factor.

The only disadvantage of lightened crank and flywheel is taking off from a dead stop because the total momentum (MASS x VELOCITY x VELOCITY) of the engine is now less and therefore it's easier to stall the engine at very low RPM.

I hope this helps.



Cheers.

[bruggz351]

cheers guys.

I should know this, a lot of stuff unfortunately is turning into vague memory type things...

..any way, I'm going to watch this as sometime in the second half of this year, touch wood, I want to rebuild the 2.6 in the GJ and fit EFI to get it ready for my daughter. I have 2 years, but if you knew how I work....

[Scorpma82]

The only disadvantage of lightened crank and flywheel is taking off from a dead stop because the total momentum (MASS x VELOCITY x VELOCITY) of the engine is now less and therefore it's easier to stall the engine at very low RPM.



Anything under 5800rpm is considered to be too low

[Superscan811]

Found a good graph on "WHERE THE POWER GOES"



The breaks in the graph are gear changes.



Cheers.

[Superscan811]

Another great read is this PDF file. Page 28 better explains the "real world" gains of a lightened flywheel or crank.



Cheers.

[bruggz351]

That's a very interesting graphic. Drivetrain soaks up sfa.

surprising to see the gearbox such a constant, only 3 or 4 HP between 2nd, 3rd and 4th.

Sorry Superscan, I've gone and hijacked your thread...

[Superscan811]

That's a very interesting graphic. Drivetrain soaks up sfa.

surprising to see the gearbox such a constant, only 3 or 4 HP between 2nd, 3rd and 4th.

Glad for an excuse to have to find this info again.

Sorry Superscan, I've gone and hijacked your thread...

Not a problem bruggz. If you are asking questions, there are probably a dozen more people who are too shy to post...


Picked up the block from the machining shop and they said the block, from factory, had a .008" (0.2mm) taper towards the back, not a major issue on a standard build, but it can cause problems if you use the block in a "performance" build.

The engine is almost back together and is should be finished tomorrow, all things going well..

Had to do a few "modifications" to the oil pump to compensate for the wear, along with checking the TDC mark is true, so I can correctly degree in the cam.




On a different note, I'm not the font of all knowledge. Most of the time, Google, used correctly, will yield the information you need.

It may just be that I'm a bit obsessive about checking the "googled" info, just in case it's "rehashed" garbage, but that's just because of what my father told me years ago.

"Disbelieve 1/2 of what someone tells you, and doubt the other half".

While it sounds harsh, it teaches you to check for your self, the validity of the information, and that, in my honest opinion, is the best way to learn.

Relying on your cousin's friend's father etc... can (and has in my case) caused issues...



Cheers.

[Superscan811]

PS: I'm not having a go directly at anyone directly with the above post, I just had a situation recently where I felt I was being used instead of the person taking the time to search for themselves.

I'm happy to help members, but I'd prefer people do some research first, rather than expect to be handed the info.



Cheers.

[cheaterparts]

Anything under 5800rpm is considered to be too low

Strangely enough I always found it was better to launch having the clutch right out by 3000 rpm on the hillclimb starts
that was using sticky street rubber yokohama 32Rs or 48rs

that gave the best launch for the least spin as it was just off the bottom of the working part of the cam
my Cam pulled hardest from 3000

and that with a much lighter flywheel and smaller dia that Scotts has ( my flywheel is built on a narrow block flywheel which is about 40 mm less in dia ) -- I also run about the same weight reduction on the crank

[bruggz351]

PS: I'm not having a go directly at anyone directly with the above post, I just had a situation recently where I felt I was being used instead of the person taking the time to search for themselves.

I'm happy to help members, but I'd prefer people do some research first, rather than expect to be handed the info.



Cheers.

[Superscan811]

The car hasn't been running anywhere near as well as it had before losing the exhaust valve guide last Easter. A lot of detonation (contributing to the blown head gasket), even when I wound the timing back to 20º at WOT and a general lack of get up and go..



During the re-power I noticed the rear muffler was a bit rattly on the few occasions the exhaust was bumped, but thought little about it.
The new engine still seemed lethargic so I decided to replaced the rear muffler just incase.

My AFR's went from normal (17:1 cruising, 12:1 WOT) to this...





The interesting thing is there was no detonation and a bucket load more power. I have been able to increase the timing to 29º WOT without any problems.

Spun up to 7,000rpm easily, without a problem (Rev limiter is set at 7,000) but the gearbox had issues, so at the moment it's out being checked and a Starion gearbox is being put in once the rain stops.

Cable to Hydraulic conversion is done using a Starion clutch pedal, with several modifications but again, the holes were marked in the firewall which makes the job easier.

Have also increased the main jets from 1.35mm to 1.425mm but until the gearbox is back in, I can't check anything.



Cheers.

[75wagon]

Make sure you post some pics of this Cable to Hydraulic conversion, and make sure it's shinny as well? (private joke)...

Dave...

[Superscan811]

Put the triton on the dyno on Monday and wasn't upset with the results, 106rwkw.



Need top play with the fuel a bit as it's a bit too rich between 3k and 4.2k (AFR's are 10.5 instead of 12.5 to 13).

Worked out the Compression ratio is around 11.5 because I used the M8 pistons, which have a 7cc dish.

May just have to build another daily engine like this one, but this time it will have flat tops and a Compression Ratio around 12.5:1




Cheers.

[yno26galant]

good to see it crack the 100kw mark out of a basic stock motor haha good job. oh btw scott did take me for a quick drive in his ute. was very impressive haha

[cheaterparts]

May just have to build another daily engine like this one, but this time it will have flat tops and a Compression Ratio around 12.5:1
.

You might do better to build a race engine for a car thats sitting in my driveway ---

I might even get keen to build an engine for my own race car if you do

[Superscan811]

You might do better to build a race engine for a car thats sitting in my driveway ---

I might even get keen to build an engine for my own race car if you do

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