1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

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Scorpma82
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by Scorpma82 »

Too clean for dirt work......attention to detail is comparable to some show cars!
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Nath76LA
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by Nath76LA »

That's looking very nice.

Just make sure you have the sheet metal door trims on very tight. about 10 years ago, Rod Salmon had his elbow cap sliced clean off in the middle of a stage when his sheet metal door trim came away from the door on his old Evo rally car.
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by Classicrally74 »

Will do, just had a shiver when I read that, I knew he lost his elbow bit but not how until now.
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by Classicrally74 »

Some more photos coming this weekend, I find posting on the forum also inspires to do more work on the car, long builds are a test of your enthusiasm. Any input, criticism or questions more than welcome.
Regads,

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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by 75glnt »

The engines a sohc 4g63 right? What mods does it need to run in it? I know it bolts in. But for the likes of throttle cables, radiator hoses etc. :) it looks really neat! Almost too neat for rally! But, all rally cars started as a neat car :thumpsup:.

What diff are you running? What struts and brake combo are you using?

Cheers :)
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by Classicrally74 »

Yep, engine is 4G63 and it does basically bolt straight in, only mods were different engine mounts. Current mounts are Hilux with a spacer plate to ensure clearance of cross member but Pajero will also do the trick.

Throttle cables are all standard except some special brackets to get angles right for Webers - will probably have to change again for injection.

Radiator hoses - not sure, cant' remember but will have to address that soon as engine is finished.

Diff is a standard housing with gussets strengthening it from side to side - it runs a 3.9 with a Mitsubishi plated LSD. It did run a 4.6 but with a 1:1 5th gear found it a bit under geared for the fast stuff and limited the cars potential. The diff is really the weak link in the car and a hilux housing and diff with fully floating hubs is planned once we get everything else sorted - will just have to treat it with respect till that happens. But it has always run the standard diff and housing without issue.
The car originally ran rear links from diff housing to front eye of rear springs to assist with traction, but these were unfortunately not very well engineered by previous owner(s) and have been removed. The plan is to engineer these and refit but am waiting till car's suspension is sorted by MCA & is corner weighted and ride height worked out so can work out angles and suspension travel needs. Current rear springs are out of a Galant station wagon as are wider and thicker but again will reasses these once suspension is being done.

Struts are standard legs modified with adjustable platforms with Sigma discs. Currently has Bilstein insets but again these will be replaced by MCA to deal with rally needs.
Rear brakes are commodore discs and calipers and it is all controlled with an adjustable bias valve.

Trust that helps & by the way all rally cars look neat (:-)

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davetrees
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by davetrees »

Don't suppose you stil have the 4.6 still floating around in the shed ? :D

The biggest single improvement I could make to my GB is to replace the 3.9 with something lower .....
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by Classicrally74 »

Dave, no I actually had 2 - sold them both many moons ago for a substantial sum, 1 eventually went to South Africa - everybody wants them and very rare as you know.

Before I purchased the Lancer I had the same problem with my GB rally car - it had a 5 speed Sigma box in it and with the 3.9 the distance between 2nd and 3rd was enormous - use to be a real pain on hills. So I had a big bullet proof clutch made (cost lots) - it was a Sachs and I made it so on hills I could put the clutch half in and hold the throttle flat - it was my close ratio Gbox and diff ratio all in one - very agricultural but it sort of worked but was not ideal....the clutch never let go or wore out.

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damian
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by damian »

impressive, and running MCA too, so no half measures then
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davetrees
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by davetrees »

Classicrally74 wrote:Dave, no I actually had 2 - sold them both many moons ago for a substantial sum, 1 eventually went to South Africa - everybody wants them and very rare as you know.
Thought that would be the case, but no harm in asking, hey :thumpsup:

Actually my ideal would probably be a 4.22 or a 4.4 for the sort of events I do, but can't really justify the cost of putting a Hilux rear end or similar in it. At least the 5 speed has a slightly taller 2nd gear than the 4 speed, so it carries a bit more speed in 2nd thatn it used to with the stock box. Maybe I should just go back to 13" wheels !
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by Nath76LA »

I have heard of a couple of people fitting Rav4 diff internals into their Diff housing for their LA's. Apparently it works.
running MCA too, so no half measures then
Exactly what I was thinking. It should be a very well set up LA once it's finished.
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by Classicrally74 »

Actually my ideal would probably be a 4.22 or a 4.4 for the sort of events I do, but can't really justify the cost of putting a Hilux rear end or similar in it. At least the 5 speed has a slightly taller 2nd gear than the 4 speed, so it carries a bit more speed in 2nd thatn it used to with the stock box. Maybe I should just go back to 13" wheels !
Yep a 4.2 diff would be ideal.

Have never understood the concept of going to bigger rims (except for tyres can be cheaper or more options available) - having gone to the expense and trouble of fitting a lower diff ratio to then undo all the benfits with bigger rims. Also bigger rims bring issues with fowling body work, upsetting turning circles, and can affect braking efficiency and possibly increase unsprung weight. but i guess I am a bit old fashion. We have always run 13 inch and plan to do that with the Lancer - we have a very nice set of Enkei light weight period rims which will look a treat.
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by davetrees »

14" rims don't foul on the Galant (and castor isn't an issue as it's not adjustable on them anyway !) Interestingly, 175/65x14 tyres have the same rolling diameter as the stock 13s that the Galant came with ex-factory .... the speedo reads spot on.

There are certainly a better range of tyres available in 14" compared to 13" (eg. I run Dunlop SP73 "steer tyres" on the front, and they don't make them in 13") but I must try & get hold of some 13s and try them out sometime & see how much difference it makes.

Bottom line though, my limiting factor is lack of talent & (gonads ....) - I can't drive the car to it's potential anyway ! :$
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by davetrees »

Nath76LA wrote:I have heard of a couple of people fitting Rav4 diff internals into their Diff housing for their LA's. Apparently it works
I have seen occasional internet mentions of this too, but have never come across anything definitive from anyone who has actually done it.

Do you have any more info ? I would have thought that if it was a relatively simple conversion, that it would be common & well documented ..... so I suspect it's just another one of those "internet myths" (although if you spend enough money in a machine shop you could make all sorts of things fit I guess)
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by Nath76LA »

davetrees wrote:
Nath76LA wrote:I have heard of a couple of people fitting Rav4 diff internals into their Diff housing for their LA's. Apparently it works
I have seen occasional internet mentions of this too, but have never come across anything definitive from anyone who has actually done it.

Do you have any more info ? I would have thought that if it was a relatively simple conversion, that it would be common & well documented ..... so I suspect it's just another one of those "internet myths" (although if you spend enough money in a machine shop you could make all sorts of things fit I guess)
I do know of one red LA rally car that had this done. I was talking to the owner of the car a couple of years ago and if remember correctly I think he did say it was fairly expensive.
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by Classicrally74 »

Sachs Clutch and Flywheel.
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dnvgalant
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by dnvgalant »

What kind of brake booster are you running? looks very narrow.
I'm thinking about starting out rallying in my gb. Would be interesting to see what bits you have :D
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by 75wagon »

dnvgalant wrote:What kind of brake booster are you running? looks very narrow.
Looks like a Lancer Hatch brake booster to me.
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by dnvgalant »

Would that fit in a GB without hacking the strut tower?
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by davetrees »

Would that fit in a GB without hacking the strut tower?
Why would you want to put a booster in ? They don't do a thing to increase braking performance, just make the pedal easier to push (but the pedal pressure on a GB isn't overly high anyway) and you get better feel without a booster.
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by dnvgalant »

Did not know that, just assumed it would help. I have upgraded to gh front discs but still running drum rears and gb master cylinder.
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by Classicrally74 »

Some more photos, sorry it has been awhile.
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by 75wagon »

Is this the stock handbrake lever converted to hydraulic? Got any more pics of that?
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Nice work by the way. It's really easy to see you've put a lot of time in to this.

Just a question, the adjustable lower control arms, how much hope do you think someone would have of getting a set up like this rego'd on a street car?
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Dave...
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by Classicrally74 »

Thanks Dave, labor of love, finally got the time and the money to build one how I always wanted to.
It is a converted handbrake with ratchet, I'll take some photos and post.
'Over the pit' with adjustable arms...no go. This car is registered but will only be on road during events, trailered everywhere.
Some rallyists 'cut and shunt' two sets of arms with deft welding and paint you can't tell, but length is fixed.
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75wagon
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by 75wagon »

Just curious, what have you done with the rear suspension?
I've seen all sorts or set up's, have you added anything like control arms to it to control axle tramp/diff twisting (or is this not so much of a problem in rallying)?
I'm seriously thinking of adding control arms to the rear of my wagon (the project one) I've been told widebody Camry ones are the correct shape, length and are adjustable as well.
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by Classicrally74 »


Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Unread postby 75wagon » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:53 am
Just curious, what have you done with the rear suspension?
I've seen all sorts or set up's, have you added anything like control arms to it to control axle tramp/diff twisting (or is this not so much of a problem in rallying)?
I'm seriously thinking of adding control arms to the rear of my wagon (the project one) I've been told widebody Camry ones are the correct shape, length and are adjustable as well.
Rear suspension - currently it has modified & strengthened Galant Wagon base plates (U bolts go thru) under the rear springs as these are thicker - had a problem with it cracking and tearing standard Lancer ones in 2. Rear springs are Galant Wagon as thicker and wider and helps stopping the "wind up & twisting" that happens with leaf springs. Rear diff housing has been strengthened with bracing,as also kept bending it.
We believe the car was originally built to contest the Amaroo park street sedan series many years ago. When I purchased it, it had rear "tramp rods" or links from rear axle to front eye of leaf springs - however these were not very well engineered and they were torn out when car was being used as zero car for a round of Qld rally championship. These original arms were bent in a figure S, so as not to foul the shockies and in an attempt to keep them at right angles to diff housing rather than on an angle which I have been told wont work as well?
We have made allowance in body and roll cage fabrication for new mounts for new arms but these will not be done till car finished and ride height & squat & possibly new rear springs are worked out so we can get all the angles etc right. An old friend who was part of the Mitsubishi Works Rally service team & worked on many works Lancers of various configurations always said that the Lancers benefited by the fitment of these arms.
We have always treated the car with respect on launch given frailty of diff and available horsepower, so traction wasn't the big issue - the Sachs clutch allowed us to have a fast staged departure - traction in rallying is more important whilst underway and this is where the arms are a benefit.

Hadn't heard of the wide body Camry option - will have to look at this.


cheers.
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by Andrew77 »

Great build,

Looks awesome

That roll cage is basically exactly the same as what in my GD Galant Rally.

She'll almost be too good rally once you've finished.

Cheers,

Andrew
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by Classicrally74 »

Thanks Andrew, as said before it has been a long love affair.

Whilst it is not the fastest car I have had, it is certainly the most fun to drive.
With its short wheel base and ample & useable power it is possible to steer by the throttle and rear wheels on all surfaces.

I have been around motorsport and rallying since 1975 & believe rallying is no worse on cars than circuit / bitumen racing - sure the outside paint can take a hammering from stones & rocks, but I have seen just as much damage to panels on circuits - with and without other competitors in close proximity.

Plus you go where your passion is - mine is dirt, have competed on circuits and at Targa Tasmania, dirt is it as far as I am concerned. We do plan to do some bitumen events in it - eg Mt Buller etc

We will however treat the old girl with respect, no matter the surface.

cheers,
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Andrew77
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by Andrew77 »

Always great to see more Classic Mitsubishi out in the forests, sometimes get sick of all the Datsun 1600's, Escorts etc.

I would have to agree with you regarding similiar punishment between gravel & tarmac. My Galant has faired pretty good considering the 10 years of punishment I've given it.

Not sure if you seen it but mine is also undergoing a rebuild currently (see builds thread also)

Would be keen to see it in action when finished. Make sure you post or PM the details of events you plan on competing in might come and have sticky beak if they're in Victoria.

Keep up the good work.

Cheers,

Andrew.
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Re: 1974 LA Lancer Classic Rally Build

Post by davetrees »

Andrew77 wrote:almost be too good to rally
There's no such thing ..... (H)
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