GK Sigma SE Wagon

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SE Wagon
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Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:08 pm
Location: Adelaide

GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by SE Wagon »

Hi All

I first joined Sigma-Galant about 4 (?) years ago, but drifted away when the new forum came along.

But now I'm back, to share what I'm doing.

Nothing spectacular, really - probably a little boring. I'll start with a summary.

I think it was August 2002 that I bought my Sigma Wagon. I don't have any photos of it back then, but after a few years of use and not much love it looked like this:

Image

Not much to look at, really. Skyline rims, lowered suspension and some exhaust. There were also some Konis in there, and twin DCOEs under the bonnet. Handled well, sounded great, good torque, but you wouldn't say that it went hard.

When I moved to Adelaide I thought I'd have to put it through an inspection at Regency Park, so I began by having LOTS of rust removed, a respray, and it looked like this:

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Some time later, I tracked down some 16" wheels, and it now looks like this:

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I decided to swap the Webers for Magna EFI. Details can be found in the old forum here.

Ironically, I got the rego transferred without a Regency inspection, so I probably didn't need to do the EFI conversion, but it does start easier, run smoother & use less fuel. But it's not exactly a rocket.

After another couple of years of use as a daily driver, and not a lot of attention, I ended up taking it along to a dyno day - primarily because we needed to make up numbers, and partly because I was curious to find out what it's putting out.

Not that much, really. :(

Image

Worse than I imagined. :( The power peak at 134km/h in 4th equates to about 4500rpm, and 63 kW is less than a stock TN Magna (I think), so the cam, headwork & exhaust aren't really doing much.

So. This is the kick I needed to sort out a few things. I did nothing to prepare the car for the dyno - only a wash & a vacuum. So this figure is a good indication of what I've been driving to and from work every day.

The car's going back to the dyno again on Wednesday, to play with the ignition timing a little, to see if peak power can be moved a little up the rev range. In the mean time, I'll check the timing (find out if it's where it should be), replace the plugs & air filter and probably the leads too. If I remember, I'll check for error codes.

If it looks like changing the ignition curve will help I'll look into aftermarket ECUs. I'm guessing that the camshaft isn't timed properly, as the head has been decked a few mm (stock bottom end with tired rings is producing 180 - 190 psi on WOT compression test.) The timing chain is getting noisey again too, so the timing cover should come off, at which time I'll eliminate the balance shafts.

And I'll post results as I go. :)
(Formerly) 1984 GK SE Wagon
Kings, Konis, EFI, exhaust. Not much power. :( But it is red! :D And Sold...
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75wagon
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Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by 75wagon »

Welcome back to the site.
Your wagon looks pretty tidy now. It looks like you have a base number for the power to be measured by, and by the look of it you should be happy with just about any result as it can only go up from there.

Good luck at the Dyno and I hope you reap some rewards for your visit :thumpsup:

For those that are too lazy or missed the link to the old site, here are the under bonnet pics from there.
SE Wagon wrote: So, I started with this:
Image

and this:
Image

and (after many visits to autoparts stores and hardware stores) ended up with this:
Image
Dave...
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SE Wagon
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Location: Adelaide

Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by SE Wagon »

Thanks Dave.
75wagon wrote:...it can only go up from there.
I hope so. :)
(Formerly) 1984 GK SE Wagon
Kings, Konis, EFI, exhaust. Not much power. :( But it is red! :D And Sold...
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A112H
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Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by A112H »

Welcome back mate, glad to see the old Siggy is still a good looker, I like the 16's. Bit of a bummer on the dyno readout but some numbers can be deceptive. Good luck with the mods and as usual, keep us up to date with pics and descriptions.
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Skidmark
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Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by Skidmark »

Yeah that is a bit dissapointing ,better luck next time, fingers crossed for a big improvement,nice ride though!
85 GN ,daily driver
86 GN ,resto project .
SE Wagon
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:08 pm
Location: Adelaide

Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by SE Wagon »

Thanks guys.

The following is a record for me - feel free to read, but it will probably be boring.

Well, today was new plugs, leads, air filter & check the ECU codes.

All the plugs looked clean, although #2 was lighter than the other three. Closer inspection showed the insulator was cracked, and the plug fell apart when I put it down. I'm guessing that didn't help, but, given that it wasn't running particularly rough, I don't think it will make a big difference. I put it aside to take some photos, but now I can't find it. :$

Air filter looked good - I don't think that's an issue. There's a new one in there now.

ECU threw a code for engine coolant sensor. I reset the ECU and the code didn't come back, so I don't know how much of an issue that might be.

Idle speed was in spec, ignition is about right under ECU control, 10 degrees BTDC without ECU control (5 +/- 0.5 is spec). Given that I haven't noticed pre-ignition problems, I'll leave it there for now - fewer changes before Wednesday the better (I think).

Stepped through idle adjustment. Base speed (without idle motor control) was 600 rpm, so I wound that up, looking for 850 (spec says 800 +/- 50, and the idle is a little erratic, which I suspect is the cam). TPS was in spec, but only just. I moved it a little closer to the nominal figure, and now it doesn't stall when the air-con is on. But I don't think that affects max power.

I'm tempted to check the valve adjustment, but I haven't had to adjust them the last few times. I'll see how enthusiastic I get, but I really should check them (again) before Wednesday.
(Formerly) 1984 GK SE Wagon
Kings, Konis, EFI, exhaust. Not much power. :( But it is red! :D And Sold...
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Sigmaproject
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Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by Sigmaproject »

You A/F is probably a little lean up to 90kph for a full power run.

After that it is pretty spot on according to most tuners who like it to be around 13:1 for a N/A engine
SE Wagon
Posts: 83
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Location: Adelaide

Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by SE Wagon »

Sigmaproject wrote:You A/F is probably a little lean up to 90kph for a full power run.
I agree. It looks a little lean through there, but it's also the "fattest" part of the curve, and peak torque is almost exactly at the leanest point.

FIIK.

We'll see what Wednesday brings...
(Formerly) 1984 GK SE Wagon
Kings, Konis, EFI, exhaust. Not much power. :( But it is red! :D And Sold...
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77galantv6
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Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by 77galantv6 »

just an idea, but if your going to be spending a little time under the bonnet,
why not move your battery to the boot and that will clean up
some of that air induction piping and the electrical wires....

other than that, nice wagon, will be watching this thread :thumpsup:

Dean.
'77 Galant V6....

1977 Galant with Commodore V6 conversion.

Image
SE Wagon
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Location: Adelaide

Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by SE Wagon »

Thanks Dean

I've thought about moving the battery to make space for induction, but I don't have a boot as such, and I'm not keen to bolt it somewhere inside the cabin. As an engineer, I also have a hangup about moving the battery too far from the starter motor. Having said that, I own a car which has the battery in the boot from the factory, so I don't think about that issue too much. :)

Anyway. I found the missing piece of sparkplug, and took some photos. No longer think the cracked plug was a significant issue.
Image
Image

New plugs are one range hotter. Old plugs were Sigma listing, new plugs are Magna listing.

Today was a new exhaust manifold gasket, & checked the tappet adjustment. Nothing out by what I would consider a significant amount, but I tweaked a few.

Back to the dyno in the morning. I hope to have something interesting to post tomorrow. :)
(Formerly) 1984 GK SE Wagon
Kings, Konis, EFI, exhaust. Not much power. :( But it is red! :D And Sold...
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75wagon
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Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by 75wagon »

I have found you low power problem for you.
Change to NGK or Bosch spark plugs. I wouldn't use champion plugs in my lawn mower.
I know I'm probably going to get burned for this comment, but I've had bad experiences with them, and never had a problem since I stopped using them over 10 years ago.

Dave...
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SE Wagon
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Location: Adelaide

Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by SE Wagon »

Already done. :D New plugs are NGK.
(Formerly) 1984 GK SE Wagon
Kings, Konis, EFI, exhaust. Not much power. :( But it is red! :D And Sold...
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Superscan811
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Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by Superscan811 »

I'll have to throw the challenge down here.

If I can get 83KW from my GN wagon, with a very lightly modded, tired engine, using carbies and running E10 fuel, you should be able to do it with the TP EFI setup. :D

You had better, because I was going to run a TR EFI setup after I finish with the motorbike carbies.

Will be waiting on the results.

Cheers.
SE Wagon
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Location: Adelaide

Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by SE Wagon »

I agree. Something's not adding up. Do you know the rpm at which you made peak power?

Well, this morning was bitter-sweet. Bottom line - no more power. :(

Apologies for not rotating the images.
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Image

With extended diagnostics on the dyno, it all looks to be in good condition. Good, even spark, strong coil. Checked plenum vacuum - although they've seen lower, it's not the limiting factor - it doesn't fall away as power does. AFRs still good - fuel delivery doesn't appear to be an issue at higher revs. Slight noise on (some display on the system) which may be a diode issue on the alternator. The alternator is less than 2 years old, so I'll be disappointed if they need replacing - I'll find an auto-sparky to have a look.

It looks like there's plenty of air & fuel getting to the engine, so now I need to look at head & exhaust. Torque has improved since Saturday, but peak power hasn't changed - number, or rpm. We tried advancing the timing to find more power up high. At a static 4500 rpm an extra 4 degrees of advance found 69kW, but the next dynamic run still peaked at 63kW. Can anybody explain that?

I know the camshaft is retarded from the decked head. Everybody I've spoken to tells me that gives more power at high rpm, not less. One day, I'll worry about that.

Dyno operator suggested they could add a fitting to the exhaust and measure back pressure - but I could tell that they really didn't want to do it, probably because they're very busy. I think he's put it down to the head simply not flowing enough. However, the head was from a friend who had it professionally ported & has oversize valves too - so it should flow better than stock Sigma. Pulling that off and doing flow testing is the last resort for me.

So, in order to keep my bank balance low, I've decided to blame the exhaust. I've never been particularly happy with the extractors (supplied when I had a new exhaust fitted, probably 5 or 6 years ago) and they've never been properly matched to this head. Nobody to blame for that but me.

So I've ordered a set of Pacemaker extractors, and will make an attempt to match them. I'll see how that goes with the seat of the pants dyno, and I may fit another camshaft which I have in the garage - unfortunately, I'm no longer sure of the specs, but from memory it's not very different from what's in there.

In the meantime, I'm supposed to be studying. :roll:

Maybe next week. :)
(Formerly) 1984 GK SE Wagon
Kings, Konis, EFI, exhaust. Not much power. :( But it is red! :D And Sold...
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Superscan811
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Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by Superscan811 »

SE Wagon wrote:Do you know the rpm at which you made peak power?
I worked it out from the gear ratios (27.93RPM per KPH in 4th gear) and it was about 4700-RPM. It ran out of puff at about 5100-RPM
SE Wagon wrote:However, the head was from a friend who had it professionally ported & has oversize valves too - so it should flow better than stock Sigma.
The head on my wagon is a stock M7 head, except for the cam and mechanical rockers instead of the Roller Hydraulic setup.
Standard valves.
Standard Springs.
No porting, at least on the head, BUT I did make the manifold runners as straight as possible.
No port matching on the inlet or exhaust, (the inlet manifold is 38mm but the head ports are 42mm).
The exhaust runner on No:3 has a large crack (around 50mm) along the weld to the exhaust flange and a very large ding in one of the runners.

I would be looking at the injectors, possibly they may be a bit gummed up, which would affect the fuel atomization, and won't allow the petrol to burn properly.

If all else fails, in the near future, I can sell you a set of Quad 38mm motorbike carbies and manifold that I guarantee will run well. I'm just waiting on delivery of 2x48mm motorbike carbies and bidding on the 2nd set at the moment (these are off a 1000cc V twin) :P

I hope you get this sorted soon so you can enjoy the extra power that is waiting there to be used.

Cheers.
SE Wagon
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Location: Adelaide

Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by SE Wagon »

Superscan811 wrote:I worked it out from the gear ratios (27.93RPM per KPH in 4th gear)
Cool! Thanks for that number. Watching tacho against speed (using TomTom GPS) this morning, I calculated my 4th gear is about 36km/h per 1000rpm. Your figure equates to 35.8km/h per 1000 rpm, which is pretty close.

The dyno printout doesn't match that ratio. They indicate that 3350rpm is 105km/h, or 31.3km/h per 1000 rpm.

I believe 105km/h in 4th gear in my Sigma is slightly below 3000rpm, and your figures would indicate the same.

I thought some of the speed figures from the dyno day sounded wrong.
Superscan811 wrote:I would be looking at the injectors, possibly they may be a bit gummed up, which would affect the fuel atomization, and won't allow the petrol to burn properly.
I was wondering about that too. Injectors were serviced 2 years ago, when they first went in. Torque through the mid-range is (I think) excellent, and the AFR figures look good too. Video from Saturday doesn't show a hint of black smoke from the exhaust, so I don't believe I have a fuel delivery problem.

It's just a lazy bugger that doesn't want to work. I need a big stick to beat it with.

Edit: I've been toying with the concept of quad throttle body EFI - but there's no point working on that if the engine simply won't breathe. :(
(Formerly) 1984 GK SE Wagon
Kings, Konis, EFI, exhaust. Not much power. :( But it is red! :D And Sold...
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Superscan811
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Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by Superscan811 »

SE Wagon wrote:Edit: I've been toying with the concept of quad throttle body EFI - but there's no point working on that if the engine simply won't breathe.
If you need a set, I have a few.

Image

Cheers.
SE Wagon
Posts: 83
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Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by SE Wagon »

Crikey! Where'd all those come from? What's the story?
(Formerly) 1984 GK SE Wagon
Kings, Konis, EFI, exhaust. Not much power. :( But it is red! :D And Sold...
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Superscan811
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Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by Superscan811 »

I'm an EBay junkie.
Whenever I have a bit of extra funds the wife doesn't find(ie:spend), I go searching on Ebay for bargains.
That collection of throttle bodies has taken me a few years to collect.

I've even had made a manifold and modded a set of throttle bodies to suit.
http://www.sigma-galant.com/viewtopic.p ... ies#p20989


Here's a thread that may give you some ideas.
http://www.sigma-galant.com/viewtopic.p ... ies#p23709

Cheers.
SE Wagon
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Location: Adelaide

Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by SE Wagon »

In my never-ending quest to abuse my credit card and deplete my bank balance, I had new extractors fitted this morning.

Don't really believe it will make much difference, but I've never been happy with the design of the Wildcat system
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so I replaced them with a set of Pacemakers
Image

At least the Pacemakers are equal length runners (if nothing else, a psychological benefit to me), and I opened them up so they're larger than the exhaust ports. Again, a psychological benefit to me.

The Wildcats will be going into the For Sale section next...
(Formerly) 1984 GK SE Wagon
Kings, Konis, EFI, exhaust. Not much power. :( But it is red! :D And Sold...
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slo
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Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by slo »

looks neat
there was a smick red hitop wagon going around in sa for while that had magna elante side skirts dark tint lowered etc
would look better with the tow bar and mud flappys gone and maybe the number plate trim painted black???
88 TN Magna |Manual|Dumped|17s|Kit|Tricked out 2.6|
96 TE Magna |Manua|Dumped|18s|Kit|Retrimed seats|Worked 3.5 to come|
02 TJ Magna |TipAuto|Vrx|
85 n12 ET pulsar |Dumped|Kit|missing motor|
SE Wagon
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Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by SE Wagon »

Thanks slo

I guess I simply want it to look like it's cared for. It gets dirt roads, so it's mudflaps or gravel rash, and it's a work-horse - the towbar gets used. One day, I might even find the intermittent fault in the trailer wiring.

Anyway, today I replaced the cam with another I had lying around. New one has (literally) a few more degrees duration, but still not "big" - and made fark-all difference. Pulls hard through 2k to 4k, but beyond that is a waste of time. :@

I've been thinking about this a lot, but can't come up with a "fault" which would kill the power like this without upsetting AFRs. If anybody has any thoughts, I would love to hear them.
(Formerly) 1984 GK SE Wagon
Kings, Konis, EFI, exhaust. Not much power. :( But it is red! :D And Sold...
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ddt
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Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by ddt »

where exactly is the AFR measured? Could there be a leak or some issue beyond that point?
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SE Wagon
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Re: GK Sigma SE Wagon

Post by SE Wagon »

Thanks for the reply.

On the dyno they were measuring the AFR (as plotted on the graph somewhere up the page) using a probe stuck up the exhaust pipe. I suppose it's possible that what's coming out the exhaust pipe doesn't match what's coming out of the cylinder, but I find it hard to imagine how bad AFRs at the ports + unknown error could produce good looking AFRs at the exhaust tip.

If somebody could come up with a theory I'd love to hear it.

I guess the next step is to sit down with the manual (again) and go through all the sensor voltages - one pin at a time. :(
(Formerly) 1984 GK SE Wagon
Kings, Konis, EFI, exhaust. Not much power. :( But it is red! :D And Sold...
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