rust removal and prevention.

This section is for talk about anything to do with body repair and presentation.
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trainzkid88
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Location: bundaberg qld

rust removal and prevention.

Post by trainzkid88 »

I have found this to work with mixed success. first clean area removing all dirt, grease, oil and loose flaking rust and paint as well and for small distance out around the repair as well as rust will continue under the edge of the good paint. treat rust with a good rust converter most are phosphoric acid based they change rust iron oxide FeO2 to iron phosphate FePO4 a beneficial form of iron follow the directions on the container let dry clean area with wax and grease remover or thinners and prime with primer surfacer let dry wet sand with 320 or 400 wet and dry blow dry with air them leave to dry out properly apply filler if needed sand smooth (note its best to leave bog to dry for two days so it shrinks properly before you sand it) prime again sand with 400 wet and dry repeat filling/priming if needed. repair is now ready for top coat it is best to do a full panel i.e. a door or a guard. sand with 1200 wet and dry then clear coat if desired then when dry fully leave takes a day or two wash car with normal car wash then buff with a buffing compound such as Mr buff to shine.

note: 3 coats to a full colour and several light coats are better than one heavy coat.

that's removal taken care of now prevention
shell make a product called ensis fluid that is good for coating metal parts to prevent rust perfect for crankshafts blocks heads etc while they are being stored clean the parts then coat them and they wont rust we coated machinery that had been outside for twenty years or more and it was still out side 5 years later it hadn't rusted any more than it already was.

electronic rust preventer's (reverse electrolysis)
some people swear by them some say they don't work but I have found they stop rust getting any worse a friend of mine had rust bubbles coming out in his car he put one on and they didn't get any worse nor did any more form.

zinc anodes bolted on too the car body have to touch bare metal to work as far as I know you can the seal around them but they have to be bare in one place to be able to work as they are eaten away instead of your car or boat or what ever they are attached to.

there are several product for use in cars such as tectl 506 and others use inside door etc.

for an under body coating mix brush-able ormanoid with turps and spray on with an engine cleaning gun thin only enough that the gun will pick it up. ormaniod sticks better a lot of the others contain sawdust and they peel and fall off ormanoid wont also the heavier you put it on the more it will want to fall off clean off all dirt, oil and grease before or it wont stick no matter what you use.
this car is all motor real motors don't need forced induction or nitrous and there's no substitute for cubes.
astronturbo77
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Re: rust removal and prevention.

Post by astronturbo77 »

nope, the only way to fix rust it to cut it all out, weld in the correct thickness steel and fish oil.
BUILT NOT BROUGHT BY ALGIE.
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GLANT
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Re: rust removal and prevention.

Post by GLANT »

???????
1972 GA GALANT/COLT, with a VR4 4G63T 151kw atw :-)
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GLANT
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Re: rust removal and prevention.

Post by GLANT »

astronturbo77 wrote:nope, the only way to fix rust it to cut it all out, weld in the correct thickness steel and fish oil.
what ? and then bog it up?..
thanks :D for info trainzkid88... im sure it will be handy for those without welders and small pin hole rust problems..
1972 GA GALANT/COLT, with a VR4 4G63T 151kw atw :-)
A112H
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Re: rust removal and prevention.

Post by A112H »

That just made my brain hurt reading that. Ever heard of punctuation?
astronturbo77
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Re: rust removal and prevention.

Post by astronturbo77 »

nope its called metal finishing
BUILT NOT BROUGHT BY ALGIE.
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GLANT
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Re: rust removal and prevention.

Post by GLANT »

ok...lets see your pics of metal finishing then!!! on a sigma guard!!, these cars are galants and sigmas etc, not 57 chevs worth 100,000 bucks when finished :facepalm: if you want to metal finish a galant or sigma, its your time and money i suppose.......ill just lmao
not to mention heating panels to metal finish with lead makes panel steel brittle.. . not dealing with old school panel steel here mate!! there is always more than one way to do things...dont limit yourself to one only!!!
1972 GA GALANT/COLT, with a VR4 4G63T 151kw atw :-)
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DVSGAL
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Re: rust removal and prevention.

Post by DVSGAL »

thanks trainzkid88

I found rust on my baby and I'm thinking about doing it myself.
astronturbo77
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Re: rust removal and prevention.

Post by astronturbo77 »

there is nothing wrong with appling filler over welded area's aslong as its not excessivly thick! Bogging over rust holes is how you fuck cars, there is no question about it, my old man used to be a panel beater and helps me finish off all my rust repairs, putting bog over rust and fiberglass behind rust holes isn't any good at all, no matter how you try and treat the steel with chemicals.
BUILT NOT BROUGHT BY ALGIE.
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paully77galant
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Re: rust removal and prevention.

Post by paully77galant »

I am a spray painter - panel beater and have restored heaps of japanese cars from the seventies( galants, geminis, datsuns, etc...). Every car thats over 30 years old is highly likely to have rust growing in it somewhere. The best method of removal is to completely cut it out and weld is a new section.
When a new piece of steel is welded in it needs to have its edges completely welded, so that there are no pinholes or ways of moisture to get through.
Next a swipe of filler can go over the welded section - you will have to give the area a thorough sand with a very coarse sand paper(36P-80P grit) to garantee the filler is going to stick. If it requires more than 5mm of filler then use a fibreglass reinforced filler(eg:fibrefill). Use 120P sand paper to finish off the filler - coarser paper will leave deep scratch marks that will show up in the final finish.
Once you have done your filler work and the area is level and smooth and finished with 120P grit, then it can be primed. The best primer to use is a two pack primer because is has good 'body' for filling sanding scratches and chemically hardens to form a solid barrier over the filler. 2-3 coats should be ample.
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paully77galant
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Re: rust removal and prevention.

Post by paully77galant »

For rust prevention inside doors and on the floor pan etc, there is a product made by 'POR 15' that is similar to fish oil, but has no smell and is a better safe guard against rust spreading. If you have just done a rust repair then brush it over any areas that you wont see(eg, in doors, over the floor pan, under the parcel shelf, firewall, etc...)
Alan
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Re: rust removal and prevention.

Post by Alan »

I agree with Glant, it is important to weigh up the costs and benefits of various rust repair techniques. If you are going to spend a lot of money on a new paint job, then it would be silly not to have the panels properly repaired or replaced.

If a panel requires replacement, and I choose to treat it with rust converter and paint it, how is that going to 'f*&k' the car? At worst, I'll still need to replace that panel if the rust converter and painting is not successful. At best you might be able to keep the car on the road for a few more years, rather than having to scrap it because you can't afford new panels.

Rust is not an infectious disease. It forms because the steel is exposed to oxygen and moisture. If you can seal the area properly, the rust will not continue to form. The challenge is in sealing the area properly.

In my mind, the biggest issue is not the rust converter, but the quality of finishing products that are available to the home repairer. Paint in aerosol cans does not seem to last long, perhaps a year, although others may have had more success. I sprayed the roof of my old bomb, and it looked good for a year or two, but then faded very quickly after that.

If an area is not prepared properly before bog is used, then you are bound to have problems with rust. Bog is not great, but you can get away with it in some applications. I would never use bog if I was going to invest a lot of money in having the car resprayed, because it may eventually move or fall out, and damage the paint. I had some bog in my TM magna, and the bog lasted longer than the rest of the car did.
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