lets have a serious discussion ( strut inserts)

[astronturbo77]

Ok so i have a LA with Astron turbo conversion, I have GH struts and ottomoto coil over kits, but need to choose a strut insert before welding the coilover sleeves on.

Heres my dilema ive heard so many stories about camira and commodore strut inserts fitting but NO ACTUAL PROOF.

i have a few musts reguarding the inserts, they must be damper adjustable, and be the same diameter of the strut tube.

are there any off the shelf sigma performance inserts?
are starion inserts the same as GH ones?
AE86 ones?

help please?

[colta51]

i am no expert but i hav read so many times pepople saying thay hav the commodore inserts in there green struts
so iv you can get the proof that thay fit all you will need to do is find sum ajustable commodore inserts that suit yore needs
ie. kyb,bilstein etc.. as there is no shortage of commodore parts still avalable unlike sigmas and lancers..

[A112H]

Proof!

These are my GH green legs converted to coil over

+
King springs

+
Monroe sensortrac to suit VB - VP Commodore


And you get

[colta51]

well there you go^

[astronturbo77]

to my knollege the vb commodore inserts require the actual strut tube to be shortend, or put some spacers under the inserts. Dan was also stating that there is a lot of difficult machine work involved in making the gland nuts fitting due to the actual shaft rubbing on the nut as the shaft compressed and extended its self. can you actually get damper adjustable inserts for commodores?

im guessing the model is vb-vp commo?

also im quite unsure what the inserts will be like becasue they are suited to a 6 cylinder vehicle..

[karl_2ltgc]

I have camira struts in shortened GH green legs with custom coilover sleeves. Cheater made them for me.

Cheater has adjustable koni camira shocks in his race car with same setup except he has starion struts.

If your going to the trouble of coil overs then its not too hard to cut an shut the strut tube so its shorter to match the shorter shock with shorter spring.

[HoonBoy]

Karl, did you ever get a chance to measure them? I've get a set of struts here that need something shorter then the Commodore ones in there now.

[astronturbo77]

what model camira?

part number if adjustable inserts?

how much shorter? i need to shorten the strut length for my setup regardless.

[cheaterparts]

what model camira?

part number if adjustable inserts?

how much shorter? i need to shorten the strut length for my setup regardless.

dont know what model camira ( mind you I wouldn't know one from another ) but I used Koni adjustabled and there was only 1 listed for camira in the koni book - and no I dont have the part number

again its quite a while since I did Karls or my own legs but from memory it was about 35 - 40 mm that the legs had to be shortened
if you get a set of the camira leg inserts just measure them up against a set of std ones
the other thing with the camira is the over all lenth was better for the coil overs
my sigma C/Os stay captive when the car is jacked up with the std inserts this was not posible

hope that is some help

[amgis_obrut]

sounds like the commo inserts are about the same size as centura insert

I found the centura insert was 10mm shorter in the body and about 40mm shorter in the ram, didnt need to fit spacers or cut the strut tube to get the nuts to tighten down I just used GJ retaining nuts

the GJ nut also has a nice dust seal pressed into it

[astronturbo77]

amgis- im guessing the GJ gland nut is the one on the left? so you didnt put spacers in the bottom of the strut tube, and used that Gj nut to compensate for the height difference?? are there adjustable inserts available for centura's?

My brother plays with a few of them so i might go have a look at his parts collection today and have a fiddle around with some old wet legs.

what does it drive like with these inserts in the front? I realise its going to be quite different if i use them in my lancer, cos ive got a astron compared to a clevland.. but on the other hand i reckon they would be quite stiff..?

cheaterparts- what free lenght coilover springs are you running, any chance you could measure them? Ive got 8kg/cm ones from ottomoto but unsure if they are too stiff/soft for my apliccation?? i can always change the springs.

[A112H]

I had to use the gland nut supplied with the inserts as the commodore inserts are a larger diameter and the GH gland nut wouldn't fit over them.

[astronturbo77]

interesting jason... the main reason i want to stay away from commodore inserts (may be proven wrong) is that they are the same length as std sigma ones, ad i need to shorten the actual strut length to get enough suspension travel, and i want the car lower. I have a funny feeling your coilovers may have been modded by the person that made them to easily fit the commodore inserts??? dan seemed to have a few issues when looking and fitting the commodore inserts??

[amgis_obrut]

amgis- im guessing the GJ gland nut is the one on the left? so you didnt put spacers in the bottom of the strut tube, and used that Gj nut to compensate for the height difference?? are there adjustable inserts available for centura's?

My brother plays with a few of them so i might go have a look at his parts collection today and have a fiddle around with some old wet legs.

what does it drive like with these inserts in the front? I realise its going to be quite different if i use them in my lancer, cos ive got a astron compared to a clevland.. but on the other hand i reckon they would be quite stiff..?

cheaterparts- what free lenght coilover springs are you running, any chance you could measure them? Ive got 8kg/cm ones from ottomoto but unsure if they are too stiff/soft for my apliccation?? i can always change the springs.

No spacers just the long flange nut, I dunno if there adjustable inserts for the centura, Car drives nice and is somewhat stiff

Galant_GT0 I measured the commo insert @ 22mm same as the centura and same as the GH units i removed

[A112H]

Galant_GT0 I measured the commo insert @ 22mm same as the centura and same as the GH units i removed

Dunno? All I know is they didn't fit, maybe the sensor trac have a larger diameter than stock?

I bought my coil overs from Panda, don't know if he made them or not or even what was done to them to be honest. I was just happy to get them pre made

[astronturbo77]

jason- whats the free length of your king springs, spring rate, and inside diameter?

[A112H]

From the King Springs catalogue

http://svc097.wic026v.server-web.com/ca ... %20cat.pdf

Model - KPS-042-X5K
Free height - 250
Inside dia - 60
Rate (lbs/in) - 250
Solid ht. - 93

Hope this helps

[cheaterparts]

cheaterparts- what free lenght coilover springs are you running, any chance you could measure them? Ive got 8kg/cm ones from ottomoto but unsure if they are too stiff/soft for my apliccation?? i can always change the springs.

mine are 2 1/2" x 10 " springs in 300 lb/inch - old school measurements or in funny little jap measurements 250 mm x 65 mm weight 300 lb ( you do the sums )

[astronturbo77]

hmm so i have been doing a fair bit of research into this and still quite confused which way to go, what ever way i go i would like to keep the spring captive with the vechicle jacked up, this is why im asking about the spring free length.

Also at the moment im thinking of not using adjustable damper inserts as its proving too hard to try and source items for the old unusual models.

Im quite concerned with the amount of suspension travel i will end up with, hence wanting to go with camira struts and cutting down the tubes, although i also worried about my spring free length being too short with out using the spring helpers supplied in the ottomoto kit.

is 6kg/mm sring too soft or hard for my lancer? keep in mind i want it to be very stiff.. im therefore leaning toward cenura inserts as the old hemi 6 engines are quite heavy, so they will be valved accordingly.

EDIT: ive just done more research and found i have 6kg/mm springs which are 335lb

thoughts on using these camber top aswell???
http://www.otomoto.com.au/HDSystems/sleevekits.htm

[A112H]

335lb is way to stiff, the thing will vibrate across the road. 250lb is about as stiff as you want to go on the road, IMHO. Cheaterparts will be able to help you there but I think he only runs 275lb on his race car and thats for a smooth track with no pot holes.
As for the adjustable camber tops, those very ones will be my next suspension purchase. The red will suit my theme, lol

[cheaterparts]

I use 300 pound myself although would like to drop down in weight for the wet
Karls baby sh!t brown galant had 280 pound I thought

keep in mind that 300 pound on my car will have less weight tranfer in turns being so wide and engine set back
matched with quite sticky tyres with limited heat cycles put though them

my guess with a lancer being narrower ( more weight tranfer )but probly lighter - I would start with 250 pound maybe 275

[astronturbo77]

ok so cheater has spoken! i want the ride very stiff but i reckon 6kg/mm=335lbs apparently???

so i need to try 275lb to start with?

according to the KONI online catalogue the only insert available for a camira is part no.86-2348sport, but what does 'sport' mean why cant it say wheather its damper adjustable???? i was also looking into the for sale add that B20 has on here for his wagon where he states it has cut down struts and celica st165 i think inserts??

also tonight i grabbed a old centura strut out of the barn and pulled the insert out, its a lot differnt in the sigma strut, looks like it may need shortening 20mm... and was a smalled diameter aswell, but im not sure if it was a 6 cylinder centura strut or a 4 cylinder one LOL

what do you think of the otomotto universal strut tops?? im a tad worried that the aluminium plate they are made out of may be too thi n and break if it went up a curb at the race track.. will give them a call on monday.

[astronturbo77]

check this link out:P http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=57453

[cheaterparts]

ok so cheater has spoken! ( thats scary isn't it )

according to the KONI online catalogue the only insert available for a camira is part no.86-2348sport, but what does 'sport' mean why cant it say wheather its damper adjustable????

what do you think of the otomotto universal strut tops?? im a tad worried that the aluminium plate they are made out of may be too thi n and break if it went up a curb at the race track.. will give them a call on monday.

Koni sport are adjustable - however its done by pushing them closed and turning the shaft these are the inserts I use




these tops are on a couple of track cars both 1600 dattos I made these up around 1999 and did a set for my sigma
at the same time - all are still in use and are aluminium

they dial on more caster as well as camber - unlike a lot of adjustable tops these are more fixed
to adjust them there were 12 tapped holes but only 3 get used by the std strut tower
so by using different sets of holes ether more camber or caster dailed in

then the final adjustments done by the caster bars and the camber bolts with snail cam adjusters in the front end

[astronturbo77]

I may just go with standard camira inserts at this stage, proving hard to get what I'm after. The ottomoto tops in the link abouve i would like to use but mount them with two sets of holes so i can angle them in the strut tower to adjust camber and castor when they are adjusted. I also plan to use ecentric camber bolts in the lower control arm bushes.

[astronturbo77]

galant GTO thankyou very much for the kingsprings link! very helpful!

[astronturbo77]

koni strut inserts for camira's are no longer available..

[brendon]

Has there been any further developments with this?

[webby]

The common spring rates that the AE86 guys use in drift/street cars are 8kg/6kg. It was recommended that I go 9/7 in my car to compensate for the extra 200kg that a GJ Scorp carries over an AE86.
I'd imagine a Lancer weighs something similar to an 86, so for a primarily track-only car I'd go with that.

[brendon]

koni strut inserts for camira's are no longer available..

What struts did you end up using? and are they adjustable