GJ front brake upgrade

[gareth12]

I have spent a few weeks mucking around with different brake possibilities for a GJ sigma. Thought i would just share my findings

Had a look at the XF disc/rod shop kit route, wont work on a GJ methinks

Got a trailer hub and fit up a BA rotor with no problem, a tidy 5mm space from the bottom balljoint, however because of the cast caliper brackets its impossible to get a caliper on it, i must have tried 20+ calipers at my local wrecker including commodores, falcons, land cruiser, magna etc etc Didn't try nissan 4 pot as he didn't have any but they look very similar to the land cruiser one.

I looked at an early 90s magna rotor which was a lot shallower but i would need to machine the hub just to try it. Would really like to try some s15 calipers and perhaps rotors but how far does one go, before i know it i will have more brake bits than i know what to do with and no brake upgrade!

This would all be a cakewalk with earlier struts....

[Scorpma82]

i managed to bolt up Nissan R31 rotors on Landcruiser 4-piston calipers.....the only thing i needed to do was shave 4mm off the mounting points on the calipers.....apart from that....it all bolted up quite nicely

Sadly, i don't know how the pedal would've felt as the car was 'disposed of' very shortly after......but i recommend to use (at least) an XE Falcon brake master cylidner (P/N P10050) for the better brake proportioning.......even better, if you can fit up a later model falcon/commodore brake master cylinder.....that would be more suited again as they run a stepped bore inside the cylinders......helps doing front brake upgrades

[gareth12]

that does sound like a nice conversion! I picked up a hilux diff for mine so was going to go ford stud pattern all around. The ease of that conversion is making me wish i got an r31 diff and stuck with 4 stud

[Scorpma82]

Personally, i think the easiest way for a bolt on upgrade is:

F) Starion front struts with slotted (and drilled if you wanna go to the extreme), with hi-po pads, steel braided lines and hi-po brake fluid
R) Scorpion diff, Starion slotted rotors (again, drilled if you wanna go that far), with hi-po, steel braided lines and (obviously) hi-po brake fluid

[A112H]

I agree with Scorpma. People get hung up on engine power and top speed of the vehicle when thinking about brake upgrades.
The performance of a road cars braking is dependent on the weight of the vehicle much more than the power or speed it now makes.

Sigma fronts on a Galant or Lancer are more than enough.
4 wheel disc with Starion brakes is more than enough on a Sigma.

Make sure you fit good pads not the cheap shit, that will make a massive improvement too.

It isn't rocket surgery guys, stop confusing the issue by trying to fit this and that from all over the place and just buy what we all know fits and more than does the job.

[gareth12]

I wasn't really wanting to reinvent the wheel, but when your engineering a car you have to do what the engineer wants.

There is no chance in the world a sigma diff is strong enough so starion rear brakes are not much help to me. I have a hilux diff thats the right width, and going to the 5 stud pattern opens up a heap of wheel choices and availability, so rather than go back to 4 stud on the rear i would rather go to 5 stud on the front. I will likely just run chasers and hubcaps, the skyline ones are pretty rare now where the falcon ones are very plentiful.

Had i have known about the r31 landcruiser swap i might have considered going for an r31 diff and keeping the 4 stud, that said i dont really like the bw78, prefer a bolt out centre and its somewhat wide.

From what i understand getting good pads for the starion is a costly exercise, also Starion discs are very very expensive when compared to the falcon ones and im confident BA falcon rotors and good pads for nissan calipers will be available for a long time at a fair price. Also starion struts/calipers and such are not exactly growing on trees anymore. I think the end result will be better and cost me less.

Sorry if you feel im confusing the issue but there has been positive feedback from members, including yourself, around the 5 stud trailer hub conversion for early struts so i thought people might be interested in this thread.

[Scorpma82]

Hoppers Stoppers do a bolt on upgrade kit for the Sigma/Galant/Lancers

You do pay quite a bit....but for ease of operaton and the engineers certificate already applied....that's a viable option (does come as 4/5 stud)

[gareth12]

Yeah i have their kit on another car, its a good kit. One thing that put me off was they said they had no idea what it did to the track width, also an AU falcon chaser wont fit over it. If it increased the track, which i suspect it will, i would need to use an AU chaser.

Would have been a lot easier to just buy it and worry about wheels when i had it lol... That said i really like this trailer hub idea, i can have hubs, ba rotors and a case of beer for the price of starion rotors, then i have a case of beer to drink while im looking for caliper

[Scorpma82]

i must ask....if ur not looking to re-invent the wheel.......why are u spending to much time searching other cars to try a "mix 'n' match"?

is this something that an engineer has told you to do?????....are you planning big things with the car?

[cheaterparts]

From what i understand getting good pads for the starion is a costly exercise, also Starion discs are very very expensive when compared to the falcon ones and im confident BA falcon rotors and good pads for nissan calipers will be available for a long time at a fair price. Also starion struts/calipers and such are not exactly growing on trees anymore. I think the end result will be better and cost me less.

Sorry if you feel im confusing the issue but there has been positive feedback from members, including yourself, around the 5 stud trailer hub conversion for early struts so i thought people might be interested in this thread.

you are right on Staz stuff - getting good pads off the shelf isn't easy or cheap I used Potterfeild carbon kevlars on mine and use to cost about $300 a set each end
I must say that the staz brakes worked ok with good pads and the Potterfeilds worked over quite a large heat range
I had used Race Brakes Comp 4 pads before them and you use to have to hold the brakes on for most of the warm up lap to get them up the temp and were down right scaring when cold

I'm not sold on trailer hubs ether - most a cheap Indian or chinese castings these days and not something I would put on the steer end of a car

[Scorpma82]

i wouldn't put them in the boot of the car....but thats just me

[gareth12]

car is going to have an ls1 in it so there will be more weight and a lot more power.

i bought the hoppers kit for my other project like i said, but felt like a bit of a cop out in doing so as i generally try and do as much as i can myself (plus its a big chunk of change).

Engineer wants bigger vented rotors and 4 pot calipers, so the r31/cruiser would have probably ticked those boxes, i think he would be also fine with a vt/au type caliper or something else so long as the piston was big. On the rear discs or a larger drum, which the hilux diff has already. He also track tests the car with a number of 100-0 stops in sequence and if hes not happy with it im back to the drawing board so would rather it too good than just ok.

The early struts look dead easy to convert to just about any disc/caliper, but the later ones are a little trickier it seems, if someone had sussed out an easy/cost effective upgrade using modern parts i would just do that, but since i cant find anything i figured i would step up and see if i could suss it out

Personally i have never seen a trailer hub break but i know what your saying with casting quality

[Scorpma82]

looking at the AUStairon forum....there seems to be a common occurrance using Wilwood 4 spot calipers at the front on the Starion struts (with a custom dog obne or adaptor bracket).....quite a few threads on it.....if your needing 4 spot calipers...that maybe your best shot......Also, i'm almost 100% sure that the HSV commodores that ran the 4 spot Brembos ran on the same hubs as the standard Commodore executive V6......without an adaptor bracket

[75glnt]

I was always set on my idea;

Galant struts (removable caliper mount)
Coilover conversion kit
Commodore blisten inserts
Adjustable strut tops
And the above mentioned H.S. big brake kit.

But I've now found out about adjustable lca's.. How do they work??

[Scorpma82]

not 100% sure (never heard of them) but i'd imagine thats more of a suspension adjustment (-ve camber in particular) than a brake upgrade

[75glnt]

Oh yea.. Lol

I'm leaving now

[Scorpma82]

well...it's still a relevant point for the racing/track day guys out there

[mic_77]

Certain wilwood kits are very easy to fit onto most sigma struts and are sub 1k for the entire kit.


Cheers Mic

[gareth12]

that looks flash! Though I have been told many wilwood calipers dont have dust seals, making them techinally illegal for road use in Australia

[simon]

instead of using trailer hubs you can use XA falcon drum brake hubs ,then use your choice of rotors/calipers

[gareth12]

yeah i would like to get hold of some of the xa drum hubs, rare as rocking horse poo now it seems, would kill to know what kind of offset they have

[simon]

I can measure mine tomorrow if you like

[gareth12]

that would be great, just a measurement from the back of the hub to the mounting face would be a big help

[mic_77]

that looks flash! Though I have been told many wilwood calipers dont have dust seals, making them techinally illegal for road use in Australia

This is true but back up plan is a set of Mazda 4pot callipers but for the price the kit comes with everything just need to modify the calliper bracket. In my opinion you could buy a set of recoed Mazda callipers and still put this set up together for less than the hoppers kit and a crap load lighter.

Cheers Mic

[simon]

just measured my hubs ,49-50 mm from front of wheel mounting plate to the back of the hub
56 mm from front of wheel mounting plate to the caliper mount

Here are some pictures




Regards Simon

[gareth12]

Thanks Simon, so they are actually pretty far offset inwards compared to the trailer hub, i will check but the trailer hub is about 65-70mm from face to the rear of the hub, guessing you will need a very shallow disc as the BA one only just misses the lower ball joint. Might make mounting the caliper easier though

Thanks

[simon]

I had planned to use TM? 1996 magna discs but ended up using the GJ brakes on my lancer

[gareth12]

yeah i have looked at some magna discs, they are very short in height, 15+mm different to the ba falcon, the s15 skyline ones are about 10mm.

My issue is the caliper mounts on the strut fouling on the caliper mounts on the caliper, so using a disc that has a shorter hat is definately the way to space it out.

[Turbo047]

Say no more:
http://www.sigma-galant.com/viewtopic.p ... 336#p91858

[gareth12]

sadly the later struts are different, and a pain...

i think putting early ones in a late car messes with the geometry? not sure