Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

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Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Postby 75wagon » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:25 pm

This question comes up often so here's how to tell.

All Saturn 4G30 (1300), 4G33 (1400), 4G31 (1500), 4G32 (1600), 4G35 (1750) motors are narrow block.
All Astron 4G50 (1850), 4G52 (2000) motors are narrow block
Astron 1 and 2 4G54 (2600) are both wide and narrow block. Out of the Mitsubishi factory auto is narrow, manual is wide.
Sirius 4G63 (2000) are both wide and narrow. Out of the Mitsubishi factory front drive is narrow (includes Evos), rear drive is wide.

Don't assume that your motor is wide or narrow if it is a motor that comes in both wide and narrow. Someone may have already modified it (eg converted a 2.6 auto sigma to manual, by fitting a narrow block/bell housing 5 speed).

Here are the measurements to be sure.
Wide block/bell housing is 330mm between centres
Narrow block/bell housing is 310 between centres

Just measure the distance between the centres of the 2 holes as shown in the pic below. They are the lowest bolt hole on the block, so if measuring a motor, measure there.
Image

This info is useful for gearbox conversions (eg, putting a wideblock 2.6 and 5 speed into a Galant or Lancer shell that had a 1.4 or 1.6 with a 4 speed).
Gearstick positions
2.6 5 speed wide bell housing long extension 735mm from bell housing to stick base centre
2.0 or 1.6 5 speed narrow bell housing short extension 660mm from bell housing to stick base centre
2.0 or 1.6 4 speed narrow bell housing 620mm from bell housing to stick base centre

I'm also told some 2.6 5 speeds from Scorpions come in a wide bell housing with a short extension (so the measurement on that box would be 660mm I assume, I don't have one to measure).

Other threads that may be of interest or help
Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades
Identifying: "Jap" or borg Warner box & Wide Vs. Narrow
Jap 5sp conversion info, Galant and Lancer

If anyone has more info they would like to add, feel free.
Also remember this thread if someone asks if if they have a wide or narrow block. It will save a lot of time and effort.

Dave...
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Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Postby Superscan811 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:43 pm

75wagon wrote:I'm also told some 2.6 5 speeds from Scorpions come in a wide bell housing with a short extension (so the measurement on that box would be 660mm I assume, I don't have one to measure).
It's true, I have one out of a GH Scorpion in my garage (wide block, short extension housing).
Both GE and GH Scorpion 2.6L 5 Speed boxes are wide with short extensions.

All Starion 5 speed boxes are wide with long extension housings.

BTW:
The KM132 Jap 5 speed gearboxes, found in
Scorpions,
Sigmas,
Tritons
(2-Wheel Drive with a 4g54 engine),
Starions and even
Pajeros(2-Wheel Drive with a 4g54 engine), (*EDIT* AND 4WD with the 4G54 engine.)
the extension housings can be swapped to suit either long or short .



Cheers.
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Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Postby L200W3RK5 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:20 pm

as far as ive seen,most late l200's with 4g63's have a narrow block with a km132 5spd and short extension
but im sure theres exceptions... :P
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Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Postby A112H » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:55 pm

Agreed, the gearbox in my hardtop is a narrow box from a 4G63 Triton
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Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Postby mrd » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:41 pm

so.. wide and narrow "block" can refer to an engine block , or the body of a gearbox? bugger - I guess that's where my new shifter went awry. :( I'm guessing the narrow box has a narrow 4bolt plate too.
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Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Postby GB_BB4C » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:03 pm

mrd wrote:so.. wide and narrow "block" can refer to an engine block , or the body of a gearbox? bugger - I guess that's where my new shifter went awry. :(


wide narrow thing is referring to block to gearbox mounting point.
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Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Postby mrd » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:50 pm

wide narrow thing is referring to block to gearbox mounting point.

That's what I always thought, but tell that to my mookeeh shifter. :|
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Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Postby barana » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:39 am

My donor '54 donk from a tr manual is narrow. Would I be right in presuming an auto block is wide?
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Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Postby mstrrab1992 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:12 pm

Auto is narrow
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Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Postby d3v147 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:05 am

I wish manual Magnas were wideblock. 'tis but a pipedream.
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Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Postby mstrrab1992 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:24 am

You obviously want/need a wideblock?
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Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Postby Sigmaproject » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:18 am

Yes the Magna blocks are a bit of a bummer. They are plentiful in wrecking yards but the fact that they are all narrow block is a bit of a hurdle..then on top of that the only sump/timing cover/waterpump combination that will fit is from the GN Sigma which was only produced in ever decreasing numbers between '85 and '87.
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