Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

This section is for talk about anything to do with transmission or drivetrain.
Post Reply
User avatar
75wagon
Admin
Posts: 5886
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:16 pm
Location: Newcastle/Lake Macquarie

Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Post by 75wagon »

This question comes up often so here's how to tell.

All Saturn 4G30 (1300), 4G33 (1400), 4G31 (1500), 4G32 (1600), 4G35 (1750) motors are narrow block.
All Astron 4G50 (1850), 4G52 (2000) motors are narrow block
Astron 1 and 2 4G54 (2600) are both wide and narrow block. Out of the Mitsubishi factory auto is narrow, manual is wide.
Sirius 4G63 (2000) are both wide and narrow. Out of the Mitsubishi factory front drive is narrow (includes Evos), rear drive is wide.

Don't assume that your motor is wide or narrow if it is a motor that comes in both wide and narrow. Someone may have already modified it (eg converted a 2.6 auto sigma to manual, by fitting a narrow block/bell housing 5 speed).

Here are the measurements to be sure.
Wide block/bell housing is 330mm between centres
Narrow block/bell housing is 310 between centres

Just measure the distance between the centres of the 2 holes as shown in the pic below. They are the lowest bolt hole on the block, so if measuring a motor, measure there.
Image

This info is useful for gearbox conversions (eg, putting a wideblock 2.6 and 5 speed into a Galant or Lancer shell that had a 1.4 or 1.6 with a 4 speed).
Gearstick positions
2.6 5 speed wide bell housing long extension 735mm from bell housing to stick base centre
2.0 or 1.6 5 speed narrow bell housing short extension 660mm from bell housing to stick base centre
2.0 or 1.6 4 speed narrow bell housing 620mm from bell housing to stick base centre

I'm also told some 2.6 5 speeds from Scorpions come in a wide bell housing with a short extension (so the measurement on that box would be 660mm I assume, I don't have one to measure).

Other threads that may be of interest or help
Bolt in RWD Engine Upgrades
Identifying: "Jap" or borg Warner box & Wide Vs. Narrow
Jap 5sp conversion info, Galant and Lancer

If anyone has more info they would like to add, feel free.
Also remember this thread if someone asks if if they have a wide or narrow block. It will save a lot of time and effort.

Dave...
If you want any sigma-galant.com stickers, then look here for how to get them sigma-galant.com stickers
Superscan811
Posts: 1689
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:12 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Post by Superscan811 »

75wagon wrote:I'm also told some 2.6 5 speeds from Scorpions come in a wide bell housing with a short extension (so the measurement on that box would be 660mm I assume, I don't have one to measure).
It's true, I have one out of a GH Scorpion in my garage (wide block, short extension housing).
Both GE and GH Scorpion 2.6L 5 Speed boxes are wide with short extensions.

All Starion 5 speed boxes are wide with long extension housings.

BTW:
The KM132 Jap 5 speed gearboxes, found in
Scorpions,
Sigmas,
Tritons
(2-Wheel Drive with a 4g54 engine),
Starions and even
Pajeros(2-Wheel Drive with a 4g54 engine), (*EDIT* AND 4WD with the 4G54 engine.)
the extension housings can be swapped to suit either long or short .



Cheers.
User avatar
L200W3RK5
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:24 am
Location: Arsehole of Australia (Radelaide)

Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Post by L200W3RK5 »

as far as ive seen,most late l200's with 4g63's have a narrow block with a km132 5spd and short extension
but im sure theres exceptions... :P
How can you not love the taste of blood and diff oil?
A112H
Posts: 7681
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:01 am

Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Post by A112H »

Agreed, the gearbox in my hardtop is a narrow box from a 4G63 Triton
User avatar
mrd
God Admin
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:54 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Post by mrd »

so.. wide and narrow "block" can refer to an engine block , or the body of a gearbox? bugger - I guess that's where my new shifter went awry. :( I'm guessing the narrow box has a narrow 4bolt plate too.
Image
GB_BB4C
Posts: 932
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:37 am
Location: Adelaide, SA

Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Post by GB_BB4C »

mrd wrote:so.. wide and narrow "block" can refer to an engine block , or the body of a gearbox? bugger - I guess that's where my new shifter went awry. :(
wide narrow thing is referring to block to gearbox mounting point.
2* 73 A53 16L Dodge Colt (Plymouth Cricket), 2* 73 GB Galant Sedan's, 1* 74 GB Galant Sedan, 1* 76 VK Valiant Regal,
1* 79 GE SE Sigma Sedan, 1* 81 GH Sigma PWS, 1* 84 GK Sigma SE, 1* 85 GK Sigma GL - Replacing the 84 GK SE, 1* 91 GTO - FOR SALE

Image
User avatar
mrd
God Admin
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:54 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Post by mrd »

wide narrow thing is referring to block to gearbox mounting point.
That's what I always thought, but tell that to my mookeeh shifter. :|
Image
barana
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 10:16 am

Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Post by barana »

My donor '54 donk from a tr manual is narrow. Would I be right in presuming an auto block is wide?
mstrrab1992
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:13 pm
Location: Sunshine coast ATM

Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Post by mstrrab1992 »

Auto is narrow
All Animals to the Crow: Your not a zoo animal!
Monkey to crow:your just jealous cause noone says "mummy mummy i want to see a crow!"
d3v147
Posts: 137
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:57 pm
Location: Tasmania
Contact:

Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Post by d3v147 »

I wish manual Magnas were wideblock. 'tis but a pipedream.
mstrrab1992
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:13 pm
Location: Sunshine coast ATM

Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Post by mstrrab1992 »

You obviously want/need a wideblock?
All Animals to the Crow: Your not a zoo animal!
Monkey to crow:your just jealous cause noone says "mummy mummy i want to see a crow!"
User avatar
Sigmaproject
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:11 am
Location: Maitland NSW

Re: Wide or Narrow (Motor or gearbox)?

Post by Sigmaproject »

Yes the Magna blocks are a bit of a bummer. They are plentiful in wrecking yards but the fact that they are all narrow block is a bit of a hurdle..then on top of that the only sump/timing cover/waterpump combination that will fit is from the GN Sigma which was only produced in ever decreasing numbers between '85 and '87.
Post Reply