Blowing Smoke

havocgtr · Post by **havocgtr** » Fri May 01, 2009 1:52 am

Ok got a little problem with my turbo it builds boost great drives well but it blows bluey/white (burning oil smelling) smoke out the exhaust when ever i back off the throttle the more boost its making at the time the more smoke (me thinks the seals are STUFFED) it doesnt blow smoke when its reving or while holding sustained boost only when i lift the throttle just want to get some other opinions before pulling the turbo and forking out for a rebuild

oh the shaft has only about 1/2 a mill play side to side and no noticable play in and out

panda · Post by **panda** » Fri May 01, 2009 2:33 pm

I'm watching this thread with interest as my Starion does the same thing atm

Sigmaproject · Post by **Sigmaproject** » Fri May 01, 2009 4:38 pm

If it is draw thru there is maximum vacuum at idle and the vacuum will suck the oil past a worn carbon seal.

As mentioned to much oil pressure. But that would have happened from day one.

Also worn engine (rings, valve seals) or faulty PCV. To much crank pressure. But this should blow smoke during normal driving , not just at idle.

karl_2ltgc · Post by **karl_2ltgc** » Fri May 01, 2009 5:17 pm

Turbo seal shagged more likely.
Any in an out movement is a no no.

Or you could have some sort of blockage in oil drain. Or maybe your turbo is about 3/4 shagged an you overdue for an oil change.

GC26T · Post by **GC26T** » Fri May 01, 2009 6:48 pm

I've had my turbo rebuilt 3 times within 100kms, even with a new bearing housing. Within 20kms it starts loosing oil between the bearing housing and the exhaust housing, even with a restrictor (20psi at idle hot, 80psi at idle cold). Before the restrictor, i had the smoke while backing off crap!
I think I'll take the TR pump out and put a standard one back in. I've got 2 5/8 hoses out the rocker cover into a catch can. A 3/4 drain back to the sump above oil level. So I know it's breathing and draining ok.
The power's great, but all the mucking around is enough to drive me back to NA.

Post by **Superscan811** » Fri May 01, 2009 10:37 pm

GC26T wrote:I've had my turbo rebuilt 3 times within 100kms, even with a new bearing housing. Within 20kms it starts loosing oil between the bearing housing and the exhaust housing, even with a restrictor (20psi at idle hot, 80psi at idle cold).......

Might be worth looking at an external oil pressure regulator going into the turbo (80psi sounds very high even with a restrictor), and check that the return line isn't being "filled up".

From what I have read, there is only supposed to be a "drizzle" of oil going onto the shaft. If it is "flooded, it will cause a lot of drag which will slow down the ability of the turbo to spool and heat up / burn the oil.

Worth a check.

Cheers.

GC26T · Post by **GC26T** » Sat May 02, 2009 8:13 am

External oil pressure regulator? Where do I get? And why hasn't anybody told me? I've asked a myriad of engine builders over the last year about this problem, and the only one who's helped is cheater, who suggested a restictor (isn't that an external oil pressure regulator?) If there is an adjustable reg on the market, I'd like to know!!!

Sigmaproject · Post by **Sigmaproject** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:52 pm

If everything is machanically OK you dont need a oil pressure regulator.

I have a TR oil pump and use 10-50 oil and have no smoke from the turbo at any time.

And mine has had a dodgy home reco with bits from ebay

A good working PVC is important, as is the breather on the top rear of the rocker cover. They need to functioning properly to create a slight depression in the crankcase. But if the engine is worn no PVC in the world will do the job.

Obviously oil is being drawn or forced past the seal, or simply cant get away from the centre housing quick enough.

If it's carby turbo, worn housing bearings can make the turbo spin out of round and ruin the carbon seal.

GC26T · Post by **GC26T** » Sat May 02, 2009 1:46 pm

It's a brand new engine, even comps. rebuilt turbo including new bearing housing. breathing and draining ok. running 10-30 magnatec.
I've gone through all this with JPC Performance in Melb. I've done 25 years in the trade, so I don't consider myself a beginner. I know
how a motor breathes. So Superscan811 where is this said external oil pressure regulator, as I've never seen one, and that would
solve a few probs. As having just a "drizzle" of oil going into the turbo, It's a bushed shaft. It's got to have a bit of pressure there
to centre and lubricate the shaft. Maybe that drizzle is for ball bearing turbos, I'm not sure.

tandanus · Post by **tandanus** » Sat May 02, 2009 3:49 pm

I know nothing about turbos - but if youve got power brakes, how does your brake fluid level look?
T.

GC26T · Post by **GC26T** » Sat May 02, 2009 4:34 pm

No power brakes. No vacuum line whatsoever before the inlet valve.
http://img3.imagebanana.com/view/yombkahu/101_5511a.JPG
Check it out. Have I done something wrong?????

Sigmaproject · Post by **Sigmaproject** » Sat May 02, 2009 4:36 pm

Only thing that I can see is that it looks like you have replaced the PVC with a fuel type fitting and then ran it to the inlet.
Or is it just running to a catch can.

Great looking setup. I always wanted one of those manifolds modified for draw thru

-----------------------------------
Just general info

There is plenty of info on this problem on Google.

I guess you have to do what you have to do.

Lots of guys with all sorts of cars are using restrictors. A draw thru has a carbon seal (because of vacuum at closed throttle) EFI doesnt need a seal at the compressor and uses a piston and ring sort of thingy.

I had a smoking turbo at one stage and it is rather frustrating to pull up at a set of lights and sit there creating a smoke haze.

If you do a search you will find you are not alone with a smoking turbo issue.

GC26T · Post by **GC26T** » Sat May 02, 2009 5:02 pm

Yeah it's running to a vented catch can. The turbo does have a carbon seal, but the turbo reco guy told me they put them in for draw through carby.
He said the fuel affects the seal. Anyhoo, I'll check google for my smoking issue, maybe that will help. Thanks for the tips.

Post by **81GL** » Sat May 02, 2009 5:07 pm

Is the cross over pipe lined with oil?

Interesting set up too with the butterfly in front of the turbo.

So the smoke is worst when your de-accelerating yeah?

Nick.

GC26T · Post by **GC26T** » Sat May 02, 2009 5:41 pm

There used to be smoke on decell. I had it rebuilt for the second time and that's cured. There's no oil on the intake side whatsoever.
My problem is........ It leaks oil between the bearing housing and the exhaust housing, around those clamps that secure the exhaust housing
to the main bearing housing. You can start it up from cold and let it idle, then after about 1 min, it starts to spit very fine spots of oil onto the
main bearing housing. It of course, eventually starts to smoke underbonnet. Sometimes it gets so bad, it smoke out the cabin!!!!! Sometimes you can
rev it and it blows out like an exhaust leak. JPC in Thomastown can't find anything wrong with it. It's only a crap modified Hitachi of a RX7 and It's cost me a fortune!

http://img3.imagebanana.com/view/46h92rl/101_5512a1.JPG

Sigmaproject · Post by **Sigmaproject** » Sat May 02, 2009 11:24 pm

Actually I think every turbo I have ever had has had a small leak there. Current one drops a bit of oil onto the exhaust housing at idle, but not enough to create smoke. I let it idle for a couple of minutes when I start it from cold, and it drops just enough to get a smell of burning oil.

As far as Catch cans go. The basic aim of PCV valves is totally eliminated.
It wouldnt even work as well as the old draught tube system from the 60's.
My machanic got me to fit a bigger PCV.
A PCV into a sealed catch can, and then into the turbo to carb adapter manifold would be a better system.

GC26T, are they cable ties holding your oil feed pipe to the turbo centre housing fitting

karl_2ltgc · Post by **karl_2ltgc** » Mon May 04, 2009 9:43 pm

I just read your running 10-30 weight. I think thats too thin for an astron with a 20 year old bush turbo.

Stick a 20-50 an see what happens. Its a cheap an easy way to potentially fix a problem.

Are you sure your oil drain is OK??? I had a little bit of smoke going with my old oil drain setup, now with factory oil drain going to factory turbo sump its sweet.

stealth · Post by **stealth** » Tue May 05, 2009 3:18 pm

im gunna throw a opinion in here and see if i
cant get my head bitten off again
a ball bearing turbo requires .8lt per min
a bushed turbo requires 1.2lt per min
pressure doesnt =flow
flow doesnt = pressure
these are two different measurements!
remove the oil line and measure how much oil your
pushing into turbo
cheers stealth

larace · Post by **larace** » Tue May 26, 2009 8:17 pm

stealth wrote: pressure doesnt =flow
flow doesnt = pressure
these are two different measurements!
remove the oil line and measure how much oil your
pushing into turbo
cheers stealth

that is the wisest thing to qualify a problem that any one has recomended

GC26T · Post by **GC26T** » Thu May 28, 2009 5:53 pm

SigmaProject said
My machanic got me to fit a bigger PCV.
A PCV into a sealed catch can, and then into the turbo to carb adapter manifold would be a better system.

Thanks SigmaProject, that's fixed my problem. That and fitting a standard pump,(Thanks Cheaterparts)
Can drive without dying from smoke inhalation!

Sigma-galant.com

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