EFI question (what's it cost?)

[75wagon]

I've heard a lot of members talk about the cost of going EFI.
Now obviously if going with an aftermarket ECU, then you'd be up for the price of the ECU and then tuning, but what about the costs involved with going with the standard Magna set up?
The easiest way would be to buy a complete EFI Magna yes?
So other then the cost for the car, what would someone be up for in the way of costs?
I know the manifold needs modifying, but what other expenses would I be looking at if i were to go done this path.
I have an 2.6 Astron 1 in my garage, and have always wanted to EFI it.

Rather then go the usual route of fitting an Astron 2 head, would it work modifying the EFI manifold to fit the Astron 1? (I have never played with an Astron, so I'm a bit of a newbie in this area).

Wiring doesn't scare me, especially if I have a going Magna to take it out of and splice the wiring into a Galant or Lancer (unknown as yet?).

Dave...

[leoca]

Keeping the astron 1 head sounds a bit hard...dont know if its been done before .
I,ve got to add it up from when I did my LC....I keep all my receipts ,so I'll get back to you.

[leoca]

Assuming the start point is a Astron II head:
TR Magna ECU,ignition coil ,TP inlet manifold with TR injectors and rail,ISC (not needed),TPS,fuel pressure regulatoro2 sensor,purge solenoid,power transistor,air box and airflow sensor..........$375

Full TR wiring loom and TR ECU and TR Control relay..........$200

Extra inlet so i could weld the TR throttle body onto the TP inlet and use TR throttle body....$150.

Cut and shut the inlet for reposition thermo ................$200(labour cost - need extra astron head or get warpage)

Cost of getting an auto electrician round to solve 1 problem I couldn't sort out ......$200

Cost of custom extractors ...depends on how ..note there is a type of mitsy exhaust manifold you can use on a lancer that will clear gearbox and steering box...bolts to astron heads..............so anywhere from 500 to 50$

Extra bits like gaskets etc 50-100

So $1275 to $1725...and that doesn't include the fuel system...i hear you can use a straight VL EFI pump and not have to have a surge tank...although I was going turbo at the time so spent the cash for full system..

You need a good abbreviated wiring diagram for a TR magna ,one of your own and patch the galant or lancer loom in (see a post I did last year for someone)

Of course depends on prices in your area too
Cheers

[leigh7005]

or u can buy my whole setup for $300 all u need is an engine to bolt it all to

[Superscan811]

I take it Dave that you aren't going to the expense of a full rebuild so it would be good to find out if the Astron-1 bore size is standard.
If it is standard and the magna engine is standard, swap internals and head.

Modding the existing EFI manifold would be easier than trying to mod a carby manifold in my opinion.

Cheers.

[fast4g54]

Howdy 75wagon..i picked up a ts magna from my brother in law for nothing but i've seen them go for $300-$500 on ebay for the complete car.. i rebuilt the bottom end of my 4g54 in my triton with high comp. pistons... used the magna head ( m6 ) which i had shaved, valves re seated, did my own port job( nothing major-just a clean up and polish)...also used the standard magna cam ( with the rear extension for magna water pump ground off) which is a hydrolic roller...had the inlet manifold modified to position the throttle body at the opposite end ( cost me $60 ), i had the injectors cleaned professionaly, wired it all up myself using everything from the magna and the total cost to me was about $2500 including the bottom end rebuild which i bolted together myself to save cash...the performance difference between the old carb engine and this one is dramatic to say the least-also economy has improved massively. There are quite alot of bits and pieces you have to fabricate and hurdles to overcome but it is very doable and way worth while. of coarse there is much more to be had with aftermarket ecu, turbo etc but you will not be dissapointed with the factory set-up. have fun!

[75wagon]

Full TR wiring loom and TR ECU and TR Control relay..........$200

Extra inlet so i could weld the TR throttle body onto the TP inlet and use TR throttle body....$150.

If I bought a complete running Magna, all that stuff would come on it.
I have a TR inlet manifold already (unmodified)

Cut and shut the inlet for reposition thermo ................$200(labour cost - need extra astron head or get warpage)

I've been reading a lot of EFI posts an the last 12 months or so, isn't it possible to rotate the themostat housing and run a long top radiator hose to the rear of the motor?

Cost of custom extractors ...depends on how ..note there is a type of mitsy exhaust manifold you can use on a lancer that will clear gearbox and steering box...bolts to astron heads..............so anywhere from 500 to 50$

I've bought a complete 2.6 Astron 1 Galant conversion, so it comes with the extractors and exhaust and everything to clear the steering box, it would only need an oxygen sensor fitted to it?

You need a good abbreviated wiring diagram for a TR magna ,one of your own and patch the galant or lancer loom in (see a post I did last year for someone)

Yes I'd need one for sure.

or u can buy my whole setup for $300 all u need is an engine to bolt it all to

Yep, that sounds tempting. This post isn't just about my enquiry, it's also to help others who are or may be wondering the same thing?
Where are you at?

I take it Dave that you aren't going to the expense of a full rebuild

It's not the rebuild I'm trying to avoid, it's the compression differences that I would get from changing over the heads. Your suggestion of swapping head and pistons would resolve the problem, but I would assume the motor will need some sort of rebuild (it's condition is unknown to me). I have never paid to get a motor rebuilt before (I know I'm a total Newb ). I did have a go at rebuilding a motor in my Datsun 1200 years ago. The bores were good still had hone marks in them, so I bought new pistons rings and bearings in it. It idled really smoothly and ran well, but it just didn't go. I think I've learned a little bit since then?

Modding the existing EFI manifold would be easier than trying to mod a carby manifold in my opinion.

I wasn't thinking of modding the carb manifold, but was wondering how much would be involved in modding the Astron 2 manifold to suit the Astron 1 head?

Howdy 75wagon..i picked up a ts magna from my brother in law for nothing but i've seen them go for $300-$500 on ebay for the complete car.. i rebuilt the bottom end of my 4g54 in my triton with high comp. pistons... used the magna head ( m6 ) which i had shaved, valves re seated, did my own port job( nothing major-just a clean up and polish)...also used the standard magna cam ( with the rear extension for magna water pump ground off) which is a hydrolic roller...had the inlet manifold modified to position the throttle body at the opposite end ( cost me $60 ), i had the injectors cleaned professionaly, wired it all up myself using everything from the magna and the total cost to me was about $2500 including the bottom end rebuild which i bolted together myself to save cash...the performance difference between the old carb engine and this one is dramatic to say the least-also economy has improved massively. There are quite alot of bits and pieces you have to fabricate and hurdles to overcome but it is very doable and way worth while. of coarse there is much more to be had with aftermarket ecu, turbo etc but you will not be dissapointed with the factory set-up. have fun!

This sounds like something similar to what I'd want to do. I would be happy with the performance of a more modernish motor with EFI. That's really all I'm after. I wouldn't hold onto my license with a turbo, I've got enough problems with a 1.6.

Where I'm at is this, I have the 2.6 conversion, and I have my wagon (which will stay a 1.6), I have my LC hatch which could be a good candidate for the swap (the brakes are already done), but I was hoping to get another car and do a complete rebuild and plan to do the whole thing all at once. I've collected a heap of parts, and just need a good body to start with to do it. I'm a little short on the folding stuff at the moment (do to house renos), which is part of the reason for the EFI question in the first place. Basically I'm trying to work out if it's out of my reach or not?

Dave...

[leigh7005]

in adelaide

[Superscan811]

I've been reading a lot of EFI posts an the last 12 months or so, isn't it possible to rotate the themostat housing and run a long top radiator hose to the rear of the motor?

I've read the same thing but I would still prefer to have the thermostat housing at the front of the engine.
The Reason...
The engine slopes down towards the back of the car. If the housing is at the back of the engine, you need to bleed the air trapped in the front of the head otherwise an air pocket CAN form, which will cook number 1 and 2 combustion chamber.

Also, think about how the water will flow (path of least resistance).
With a Magna engine, the water is pushed into the back of the block and removed through the back of the head.
In a Sigma, it's pushed in through the front of the block and removed through the front of the head.
This allows the water to flow through all the block and head relatively evenly.

I wasn't thinking of modding the carb manifold, but was wondering how much would be involved in modding the Astron 2 manifold to suit the Astron 1 head?

Sorry, my mistake.
The only issue I can see is the difference in port size and the rear water port size.
Some Astron-1 engines have a 38mm inlet ports with a groove cast fairly close around it.
The TR ports are 42mm so you would probably need to do quite a bit of porting and probably some welding on the Astron-1 head to fill these grooves to match the runners to the head.
After that, just weld on a few pieces of aluminium to match up the bolt holes/rear water port, and then straighten and machine the flange.

Cheers.

[Cottees]

i hear you can use a straight VL EFI pump and not have to have a surge tank..

My EFI setup uses a Bosch 050 fuel pump from a VL non-turbo and fuel filter from a VN, and they sit on the line between the tank and the hard lines that lead to the front of the car. It is still NA at the moment, and haven't had any real issues so far. I have found though that when running low on petrol in the tank, it can hesitate a little. So a surge tank isn't needed, but could be useful even with an NA engine.

[astronturbo77]

hey dave, the best idea is to use a magna m9 head on your astron 1 bottom end with flat top pistons, remove the balance shafts + magna efi. Use the series 2 head as it flows better and is better designed. The thermostat at the rear is fine, depends how fussy you are, on my lancer setup it works well and does not overheat. I would recomend setting up a surge tank, if you drive enthusiastically. the whole setup would be done in my opinion for under a grand, get a cheap efi TN-TP magna for under 500 bucks, then the fuel system wont be super expensive, you need a basic electric fuel pump as a lift pump, and just a VLT 077 feed pump (around 150 buks). I would aslo suggest doing a under car surge tank arrrangement, i wish i had done this first. You are a cluey man and I'm sure with a bit of handy work can get some aluminium and cut it out and get it welded up for cheap

[81pw]

Just did my mates set up week ago. We got the magna for 250. Head shaved and valves reseated 200. Vrs kit 80. Bocsh fuel pump 80. Intake manifold cut and welded 100. And little other things like fittings and hoses 50 and balance shaft eliminator kit 40. So all up another 800. Very cheap . Add another 200 bucks for a lift pump and surge tank.

[75wagon]

Just did my mates set up week ago.

That sounds good
Was it an Astron 1 or 2?

Dave...

[81pw]

Astron 2 m7 head. If your even down in Sydney I'll show u how I've set mine up I've done 2 now tr and a tn setup. Both easy if everything comes out of a running car. I would spend the extra money to get a running car so u don't have the headache wondering wats not working. If u need any help let me no.

[75wagon]

I would spend the extra money to get a running car so u don't have the headache wondering wats not working.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Dave...

[astronturbo77]

we will have to continue the discussion from the other night mate