adjusting toe (camber) in GC sedan

[kenvv]

ok i tried doing a bit of a search and found this thread
http://www.sigma-galant.com/viewtopic.p ... t=toe#p651

however as mentioned in the thread GC's are different so im enquiring specifically towards them

im wanting to run some neg camber on the front of the sedan. im running sig struts at the moment and wondering if i can find some sig lower control arms are they longer and would that assist with camber. or any other suggestions apart from camber tops as that seems like a bit more of a hassle at the moment.

also what have people done in the way of rear sway bars to add some more stability and possibly camber to the car due to the larger engine weight.

thanks guys

[woops]

I think putting in the Sigma struts gives a bit of negative camber due to the slightly different kingpin inclination.

Unfortunately the Galants don't really have a lower control arm but more of a wishbone. An old trick used on similar setups in other cars is putting a spacer where it bolts up to the chassis but this isn't really possible on the galants as it won't make but of a difference due to the mounting angle. Also the lower control arm (wishbone) controls the camber and caster and there isn't any adjustment to either of them and there is no real easy replacement.

I hate to say it but the easiest method to adjust camber in galants is to use adjustable strut tops.

Taking a look at that thread shows a fair bit of misinformation. I had a problem in my GB galant where i had replaced my ball joints and suddenly got positive camber. I was a bit puzzled but finally found that the GA-GB had a different ball joint then the later GC-GD. The pin was smaller on the GA-GB and the shop had given me the ball joint for a GC-GD instead. The ball joint did bolt into GB hole but ended up sticking out 10mm further. This resulted in a very noticeable positive camber.

Also you title to the tread is a little inaccurate as the toe is adjusted by adjusting the length on the tie rods which funnily is the only adjustment on the galants. The toe is the angle of the front wheels relative to each other and camber is the vertical angle relative to the road.

Oh also please don't run a rear swaybar on a galant unless you are having a real problem with understeer. You would be much better to put in a stiffer front swaybar to improve handling. utting in a rear swaybar will introduce a fair bit of oversteer. In your car with your power level that would be one of the last things i'd want.

Oh also the kingpin inclinations for the GA-GBs are 8 degrees 50 minutes and GC-GD is 9 degrees and the GK sigma is 8 degree 45 minutes. I don't know what the GH sigma is though.

[kenvv]

ok cool thanks mate,

yeah bit of a mix up with my words. it is camber i wanted to adjust. maybe i will just have to look into adjusatble strut tops then. have you done the strut top change? did you just buy some random ones off ebay and try to make them work?

in regards to rear swaybar my mate just said to ask as it might help with understeer. but, like me he isnt to knowledgeable about the galants and their weight distribution. so after your comments i will leave that alone then. i havent actually driven the car more than 10k's yet to know to much about its handling. just been at mechanic since purchase still. was just wondering

cheers

[Tj.]

At the very least you should replace ALL the front end rubbers along with ball joints, drag link and tie rods. It makes the world of difference. They're all still readily available including the bushes for the rear leaf springs and they weren't too expensive.

All this, plus a Good wheel alignment and decent tyres will reduce understeer about as much as you can before resorting to more drastic measures (which would also be useless without doing all the rest before hand)

I changed just the swaybar rubbers when I put sigma struts in my coupe along with new shocks and springs and that alone transformed the car.

Since it's been off the road I've changed everything else including fitting a better condition steering box. Even just pushing it around the garage it feels better

Can't wait to drive it again.

[woops]

I couldn't agree with that more. I have nolothane bushes in everything up front in my GB and a good set of 195/50 on some pepperpot rims and i can't get the thing to come loose at all even on the wettest roads. I suspect it'd roll before losing it and that can be remedied by a slightly lower stiffer spring. Even though my car is stock engined and stock springs it handles better then most people expect, even if it is almost a 40 year old car. The best thing to do is to make sure the entire suspension system is up to scratch before looking at upgrading anything. Also learn the the cars handling characteristics and determine if and where improvements could be made. Also a good set of tyres can make all the difference and luckily there are plenty of options about the $150 each mark for your rims.

[kenvv]

well im changing rims shortly anyway. will be ugrading to 7 or 8 " all round. then just going to sell the turbo rims. i just really like the look of cars with camber so was more as a cosmetic mod as i doubt i will be boosting around corners that hard anyway. cheers for the help

[Rallyant]

Galant A arms are the same length as the older model sigma, the newer ones are longer.
To achieve some neg camber, the "race" Galant I bought had holes drilled in the crossmember about 1inch further out to mount the A arms, they also had a spacer under the rear bolt to help with bump/roll steer, Im not sure how much dif the spacer made as I drive another Galant without the spacer and it feels the same.

[toruhiwi]

Galant A arms are the same length as the older model sigma, the newer ones are longer.
To achieve some neg camber, the "race" Galant I bought had holes drilled in the crossmember about 1inch further out to mount the A arms, they also had a spacer under the rear bolt to help with bump/roll steer, Im not sure how much dif the spacer made as I drive another Galant without the spacer and it feels the same.

This is about the best "inexpensive" way to alter camber and/or caster on Galants. With calculations, the caster can also be increased while doing this mod.i.e. move the rear of the wishbone outwards to a greater extent than the front. Did this mod on my first Galant during the 70s. It is also possible to slot the holes as the control arm has small teeth on the mating surface to prevent movement...... But make sure the bolts are TIGHT!
This will also improve handling/response.............The spacer was probably fitted to aid in caster adjustment because of the angle in the X member where the lower control arm mounts. This all helps reduce nosedive under braking as well.

Roger

[BIG26L]

If your chasing a bit of castor, which always helps. swap the control arms from side to side.
i.e. passengers side on drivers side and vise-versa. The control arms are not an equal triangle, they are off set.
The only downside is, you may have to trim a bit of the front guard away for the tyres to clear with a bit of lock on board.

[Rallyant]

Yes this was the plan, I dont see anything in the IP rules to stop this, But the bushes are arranged with bush to take the thrust load under braking in the std direction, when swaping sides the thrust bush is on the wrong side, Some simple mods will no doubt fix this, Just wandering what, if anything, you do about that?
Id like to machine some bushes up out of delrin, but im not 100% sure if thats OK with the IP rules?

[astronturbo77]

remove the galant crossmember and install a la lancer one, fabrictae up some radius rod mounts at the fron under the rad support panel and dont look back, could even use starion lca's and struts and wind as much castor in as you want!

Also you topic title is confusing me.... do you know the difference between camber and toe in/out?

[Rallyant]

Dont need to fab any radius rod mounts, all that stuff bolts straight in. Looks like they had setup to go that way with the galant, but didnt.
If I wasnt building for IP I would have done that too. A arms have some advantages over radius rod setups tho. only down side is there shorter than the late model sigma stuff

[BIG26L]

....and the difference between a sigma and galant front end??????????

[astronturbo77]

galants have 'A' arm front control arms, so there is no castor adjustmet. Lancers are basically the same setup as sigma's and starions.

[BIG26L]

Correct............That wasn't aimed at you Astron

Galant A arms are the same length as the older model sigma, the newer ones are longer.

[Rallyant]

That was aimed at me? Sorry, I didn't realize my posts was that unclear?
Yes, Galant A arms are the same length as Lancer and early sigma arms. I was not stating Lancer and sigma arms were also A arms, There would be no point me talking about installing radius rod mounts and a lancer cross-member if I was.

Astron suggested swapping to the Lancer front end and swapping in the longer arms from a sigma (for camber and track increase) as well as be able to adjust the caster with the radius rods.
This was something I was going to do, But since i want to race IP i cant.
I was just pointing out that the galants (from GC on) actually have mounting points and hols etc for the radius rod setup used in the lancers and sigmas, The holes on the cross-member dont match up to the galant chassis from memory? but a drill fixes that problem pretty fast. (I have pics of a galant with a sigma front end in it somewhere, I also posted it on the old forum a few years ago.) And that theres no real advantage unless your going to run the longer arms as the lancer and early model sigmas run the same length arms as the Galants, and that A arms have some advantages over the Lancer/sigma setup. (less toe out increase under breaking etc)
And like you said, swaping the A arms Left for Right give all the caster you could want, combined with a camber/caster strut top it should be a pretty good setup. Ill get the track as wide as physically aloud in IP class with the right offsett wheels

[BIG26L]

Just Checking.............

That was aimed at me? Sorry, I didn't realize my posts was that unclear?
Yes, Galant A arms are the same length as Lancer and early sigma arms. I was not stating Lancer and sigma arms were also A arms, There would be no point me talking about installing radius rod mounts and a lancer cross-member if I was.

Your've got plenty of scope for things in IPRA and upto 100mm flares to cover your increased wheel track. There are a few guys here running IPRA that will be able to point you in the right direction. I've run with them in the past, but the wording of the rules has changed a lot since I last ran. Cheater is probably the man to talk to atm about it.

[Rallyant]

Yeah, I have been talking to cheater for almost 10 years about it. I had no interest in IP prior to that.
They give you 50mm each side as viewed from above for flairs, (100mm total) and ill be using all of it

[karl_2ltgc]

Can you post these sigma front crossmember in galant pics Glen.
I care not for IP rules anymore. I would rather be a slow sports sedan than a slow IP car atm, not hat I would have the time/resources to race anyways.

My mate was putting a lancer front in his galant but the bolt holes didnt line up on the chassis if I recall.

Link to thread with pics
http://www.sigma-galant.com/viewtopic.p ... lant#p7566

[BIG26L]

There are pics of the conversion some on here, one of the rally guys has doone it with his Galant rally cars.
Have a bit of a search around