GB GALANT WANTS TO CRANK

[ripthesystem]

hey guys, my gb gallant wants to crank but it wont budge.

its a 1.4 Saturn engine,
we have replaced the rotor button
we have replaced the leads
we have replaces the contact points
we have replaced the coil
all were fault so we thought it would start.
each 4 plug have full spark, timing is set as per gregorys manual
tomorrow we are going to open up the rocker cover and take a look at the timing chain,
looks like the cover has been cleaned and replaced with a new seal but the previous owner wont tell me much.

Car wont kick over, just floods itself or carby bursts into flames!

full petrol flow

choke is fine

any tips on what possible or recurrent problem with the Saturn 1400 engine not firing would be a great deal of help

thanks in advance for any advice given, I am trying to put off switching the whole engine as I want to register the car the easy way lol

please help!!

!

[75wagon]

I'd start with the cam to crank timing.
Then the distributor timing.
Then valve gaps
All in that order.

If it still doesn't run, I'll be surprised.

Dave...

[ripthesystem]

thanks mate, will do!
do you by any chance know the correct spark plug I will need?
they currently have a bosch wr7dc not sure if they are suitable?
cheers!

[75glnt]

My 1600 runs a ngk r bp6es. If that helps??

But your Gregory's manual should say?

[A112H]

If it is firing through the carby I would put my money on timing. Double check the dizzy, it you find no fault there rip the rocker cover off and check cam timing.
Good luck

[75wagon]

Here's some questions:
Did it run properly when you got it?
What have you done to it?
How confident are you that the work you did to it is correct?

The reason I suggest to start with cam to crank timing, is because I'd start with the dead set basics and eliminate them one by one. EG: There's no point mucking around with a mixture screw if it's the cam timing that's the problem. No amount of adjusting the wrong thing is going to solve your problem.

I learnt this the hard way with gaPhil's GA. I assumed things would have been right being that the motor was supposedly originally running with twin webers. I spent hours trying to muck around with just about everything adjustable. I spent hours scratching my head wondering why it wouldn't respond to tuning the way it should. Then I checked the cam timing... 5 teeth out. How the hell did it run in the first place?

Dave...

[ripthesystem]

Thanks for the replies.

Today I adjusted the crank shaft to the Cam shaft properly, the cam was 180 degrees out of wack.
I also adjusted the valves to the correct position via the gallant 1400 description.
adjusted the dizzy timing etc.
Full spark to each cylinder,
Car seems to be almost kicking over though something seems not right as it wont sustain itself.

this helped a lot and I feel as though I am getting somewhere lol.

I adjusted the fuel intake on the carby and this helped also.

I have a video of what it is doing when I try to crank it,

I will upload below!

[geezer101]

Good that you've made some progress in breathing life into your GB. Fully advancing/retarding the ignition make any difference? Make sure your points are set correctly too. If you know how to use a dwell meter or know someone who does, it will really help with your base tuning. If not, now is as good time as any to buy one and learn how to use it (way better than trying to set your points gap with feeler gauges).

[ripthesystem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSgnlZS3-Hg

[A112H]

I would say that is still cam timing mate. The only way it can blow back through the carb like that is if the inlet valve is still open when the piston is coming up.

[75wagon]

Today I adjusted the crank shaft to the Cam shaft properly, the cam was 180 degrees out of wack.

So when the crank marker is on top dead centre, the cam dowel is at 42 degrees to the horizontal?

[ripthesystem]

Yep, 42 degrees. measured with a protractor (as hard as that was lol)

I've given up, just gonna replace the engine seeing as i don't really know wtf the people before me have done to it.

Thanks for all the advice and support, this is really a great community!

cheers!

[geezer101]

It's not making any evil metal to metal banging so IMO I'd persevere with getting it to go. Put a call out to anyone off the forum in your area that can offer a hand and a spanner. Its soooo close to going, it shouldn't take much tweaking/adjusting to get it firing up properly.

[ripthesystem]

Yeah you are right, I was super angry before because Its been raining on and off haha, I will persevere and recheck all the timing. I noticed today that sometimes the back right piston is down while meant to be in rocking position. possibly bent? though like you said there are no sounds of stress. while its kicking over.

I broke my rotor button today so that's just another kick in the shins.

I can't seem to find a rotor button that will fit. I tried autobarn, supercheap, cheaper auto spares, and repco.. but no dice

[Tj.]

I'm going to make a silly suggestion, as I've done it before, but have you checked to see that your plug leads aren't out of order? I spent an entire 4 day long weekend pulling the engine in my Zed to bits and was so exhausted when I put it back together I goofed the plug leads up and chucked a wobbly when it wouldn't start. Felt like a right knob when my dad pointed out what I'd done.

One other thing, I'm not super familiar with 4g32s but arent the distributors gear driven? Could that be a few teeth out as well?

[VGJONO]

I could probably drive a rolling demonstration to you if you need a hand, i also have a 4G3x Chrysler Service manual of which goes into a bit more depth motor wise than the Gregory's manual and ive found rotor buttons to be easy to get, but i guess it depends, does your 1400 have a bosch or a mitsu dizzy? ive brought the mitsu rotor button's twice from the same repco within 8 months of each other so i dare say it is a commonly used rotor button, same with points, only thing that is a pain is the condenser of which i have had to order.

[ripthesystem]

Yes the dizzy is gear driven, but i have lined it up perfectly to spark on each plug. haha i also did that on an old gemini a few years back. so i learnt the hard way to always check my leads.
I believe it's a mitsubishi Dizzy, i recieved the contact points from supercheap bosch, not sure what part no. they were pretty basic and slotted right in. Repco seem to know what one i need, but they had the wrong part in the right box so they have ordered me one from brisbane. hooray!

[75glnt]

I could probably drive a rolling demonstration to you if you need a hand, i also have a 4G3x Chrysler Service manual of which goes into a bit more depth motor wise than the Gregory's manual and ive found rotor buttons to be easy to get, but i guess it depends, does your 1400 have a bosch or a mitsu dizzy? ive brought the mitsu rotor button's twice from the same repco within 8 months of each other so i dare say it is a commonly used rotor button, same with points, only thing that is a pain is the condenser of which i have had to order.

I may be able to help also.. I didn't realise you're on the coast half hour from myself..

Many hands make light work

[ripthesystem]

Awesome! Thanks guys If i can't sort it soon i shall give you a holla

[75glnt]

Pm me for my number when you need it.. Easier that way

[ripthesystem]

So I called up 'just mitsys' today to see if I could get a quote on them rebuilding my 4g33 and the guy laughed at me,
he said and I quote "sorry mate, we don't do engines before 1980" so I said what about sigma engines etc (84)
and he laughed again and said I've got the wrong guy and he doesn't think anyone would attempt to rebuild an engine before 1990.

I really wanted to punch him through the phone but they haven't invented that yet haha

Autobarn ordered me the wrong rotor button so I bought it anyway and trimmed the copper plate to mimic my old rotor button as the problem with mine was that the plastic slot inside had corroded.

Hopefully tomorrow I will be able to install a new condenser, rotor button, the correct spark plugs and fire her up without a problem (I hope)

I have a small enquiry, does anybody know if I can exchange the engine with a 4g54 carb and take it to get roadworthied, bypassing the pits?
as I am quite sure they will pull me up on everything whether unsafe or unpleasant to the untrained eye.

cheers, Tommy.

[75wagon]

does anybody know if I can exchange the engine with a 4g54 carb and take it to get roadworthied, bypassing the pits?

I know someone who tried to fit a 2.6 carb to a 1400 years ago. It owuldn't idle at a low enough speed no matter how hard he tried (with adjusting settings). The idle circuit jetting was all wrong.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but bolt on and get it running, no way.

Get someone over from the site who lives near you who has some experience.
These engines are pretty basic.
Living is learning, and I for one, still have plenty to learn.
All I'm saying is, if your are struggling with this, you'll have the same problem with just about any other engine that has ever been made.

Again, start with the basics. If they are right, you can't be far off getting it to run.

Dave...

[75glnt]

With a bodgy roady but otherwise, unless the body came out with the same engine, it needs a mod plate. Eg, the dohc 4g63 into my l200 ute is allowed without mod plates. Because they come out with the 2.0 4g52, the 2.0 4g63 sohc, and as far as I can tell.. The 1600 4g32?

So for a gb galant.. You can put a 4g32 1600, a 4g33 1500?? (I don't know the other 4g3xs). Without mod plates

So to answer your question. Not without a mod plate

Hope this helps

[dnvgalant]

Hey Mate,

I have put a 4g54 carb engine in my gb. I haven't taken it to get a roady yet but its within the regulations for engine replacements for QLD. Likely you will need a mod plate but they are only a couple of hundred and easy to come by. you will probably need a brake upgrade in the fronts to disc but that's an easy conversion anyway. Wide block engine is tight and you are best off getting a short jap 5 speed from a scorp as this means you don't need to cut a big hole in your floor and you can use you standard prop shaft(you will need the matching slip yoke for the gearbox though). Borg warner gearbox won't fit unless you have an auto, plus the jap box is better. You will need the 5 speed gearbox mount, you will have to rewire your alternator and you will need a custom radiator (or recored to 3 core original one). That's all the things I can think of, there may have been some things I missed. There is also a thread on this replacement, but it doesn't cover everything.
http://www.sigma-galant.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=3636

Dan

[geezer101]

I have a small enquiry, does anybody know if I can exchange the engine with a 4g54 carb and take it to get roadworthied, bypassing the pits?
as I am quite sure they will pull me up on everything whether unsafe or unpleasant to the untrained eye.

cheers, Tommy.

Why go so big? You could use something off a 1.8 litre Cordia, Nimbus or an L300 Express van? I'd think going any bigger will only have a detrimental effect. The only physical difference is the auto choke will be a wax pellet and not the bi-metal spring type (the accelerator enrichment pump and fuel return might also be different - factor this in before bolting it on and sort out a solution). It 'should' still idle o.k. but will flow a bit better and have more mid and top end.

[A112H]

I think you all missed the point. He wasn't asking if he should fit a carby from a 2.6, he was asking if he can fit a Astron 2.6 engine with a carby to his car.

[geezer101]

I took it at face value he wanted to exchange his carby for a 4G54 item (I'm not a grammar nazi and with most posts punctuation is optional lol) but if ripthesystem is looking at doing the swap he should do 2 things - hit http://www.sigma-galant.com/search.php and the local motor vehicle regulators in his state. And "Just Mitsy's" don't rebuild Mitsubishi engines? Maybe they should change their name to "Just go somewhere else..."

[75wagon]

I think you all missed the point. He wasn't asking if he should fit a carby from a 2.6, he was asking if he can fit a Astron 2.6 engine with a carby to his car.

On re reading that comment, I think you are right A112H.

[ripthesystem]

So some good news guys, car is running fine, but won't idle, if I take my foot off the pedal it won't sustain itself. Once I find the carby settings I will attempt to adjust it properly, I had a little much around with it today but no luck

[VGJONO]

Great news if you need a hand tuning the carby i am glad to help, done more messing around with my carby over the last year than i care to remember