Some PLEASE help with setting up idle, fast idle etc........

[H8DAG8]

Hey guys

Ever since I bought my Sigma it's had the hose controlling the autochoke that goes to the intake blocked with a screw thus disabling the autochoke?
Since I've done the manual conversion I've noticed it annoyingly idles at around 1100-1200 so between gear changes it's a bit annoying and when it's just idling at the lights.
I had a play today but couldn't get it quite right, is that because the fast idle (choke) setup is actually still all in there?

If i plug the hose back up can someone on here tell me the perfect way to set it all up again? So it idles around 1200-1400 when cold and drops to 800-900 when warm?


Cheers
Logan

[fridgeGB]

im guessing u have already fiddled with the idle screw??

[zabatron]

Fast idle/automatic choke on most Sigmas(except some early Ge Sigmas,sigma turbo and Peter Wherret Specials)is operated by a water/coolant temperatue actuated wax pellet.Low coolant temperature when engine is cold causes wax pellet rod to retract,closing choke flap and increasing engine rpm,and this same rod expands as coolant temperature rises with motor warming up,gradually opening choke flap and decreasing engine rpm.Automatic choke will not work unless motor warms up correctly.If your engine is stuck on fast idle,first check that the engine has a thermostat fitted and that it actually reaches normal operating temperature(check actual motor,dont rely on temperature guage.)If engine warms up correctly,check that wax pellet rod is not siezed,it should expand/come out when motor is warm,and also check that coolant passage into wax pellet(not just hose)is not blocked by corrosion.Fast idle speed can be adjusted when engine is cold (just after starting car)by turning fast idle adjustment screw(this screw is separate to idle speed screw and mixture screw.)If you find that your wax pellet is seized,try a few drops of oil on the actual rod.If this does not work,new wax pellet chokes are still available,but not cheap.In addition to above,if choke is stuck in cold position with increased rpm,fuel economy will also be poor as fuel mixture will be too rich.Sorry for writing a book.

[H8DAG8]

@ fridgeGB: yea I have already fiddled with the idle screw, unfortunately. But it was way out when I bought the car anyway so it's a tad better now. However, when I try and screw the idle screw out more it doesn't change the idle at all it stays where it is, around 1000rpm which is really annoying and sometimes it'll stay at around 1200-1300. I have re-connected the choke vaccuum hose to the intake.

@ zabatron: thanks for all the info mate. Really don't have time to check all of that now but I wish I did because I really want the idle to be sorted, ticks me off and is so much more noticeable now that the Sigma's manual!!

[fridgeGB]

again its only something little and quick to check, but my old stock carby used to be a bit of a pain in the arse with the idle sitting up a bit higher than it should like urs. around the 1000 -1200rpm. it was as simple as the the accelereator lever on the carby not being pulled back all the way by the return spring. even if i let the idle screw right out it wouldnt make any difference, but i could push the lever down by hand and it would just move that tiny bit more and bring the idle right back down. so its just something simple again but it may just be a new return spring or stronger return spring that u need hope u have some luck

[H8DAG8]

again its only something little and quick to check, but my old stock carby used to be a bit of a pain in the arse with the idle sitting up a bit higher than it should like urs. around the 1000 -1200rpm. it was as simple as the the accelereator lever on the carby not being pulled back all the way by the return spring. even if i let the idle screw right out it wouldnt make any difference, but i could push the lever down by hand and it would just move that tiny bit more and bring the idle right back down. so its just something simple again but it may just be a new return spring or stronger return spring that u need hope u have some luck

Ah shoot I actually fully forgot about that - but yea I do remember putting my foot underneath and pulling it back and it did drop even further (on the 1st test drive after manual conversion) and then fully forgot about it!

I havn't had a chance to look yet but there's only a return spring on the carby end of the throttle cable? Or is there one on the pedal end too?
Where would I go about getting another or stronger spring for the carby end though!? I'd guess they'd be really expensive as not much demand for them?

Also, I think the fast idle is a bit stuffed on mine as it doesn't seem to be constant at the rev's it gives when cold and warm, so if I take off the vacuum hose again and block it, what do I do with the fast idle screw? Fully unscrew it? Or adjust it along with the idle stop screw to find the perfect revs when cold or warm? Oh, and, the mixture screw, do you know what the "standard" setting is? Like "5" turns from fully in or out?

Cheers man
Logan

[fridgeGB]

I know with mine even if i pulled the accelerator back with my foot it helped but there was still a fraction more movement if u pushed it back by hand at the carby. Springs are easy to get. I just got mine from autobarn, they will have a few different types, only a few bucks each (im pretty sure the brand of spring where redline). The idle adjustment screw should be set wen ur car is at running temp. I dont know the standard setting point for your tuning screw, but a simple way to get it pretty close to its correct setting is let your engine warm up, adjust your idle screw so the engine revs at 2000rpm (doesnt matter if its a little more than that) then you make very small adjustments to your mixture screw (either in or out as it depends were it is already set) and the engine revs will keep increasing to a point and then start to drop again, or will stay at the same revs. You want to set it at the point where its at its highest before it starts to change, then after that you can take your idle screw back down. Wen i did mine last i screwd the mixture screw almost all the way in (still out enough so that the car would run) so i knew i only had to turn the screw outwards wen setting it. Yer on my galant there is a spring at the carby and at the pedal but im not sure about the sigma. id say u will only need to worry about one on the carby. anyways hope this helps or atleast makes sense haha. it is very easy to do. good luck

[81GL]

I think i recall reading else where that your sig has a 63 yeah?

I'm going to suggest you take a picture of the carby and post it up, can then use paint to circle things to adjust to get it to idle correctly.
(sounds a bit sus with the blocked hose from the choke?)

As Zabatron has pointed out though, if your engine isn't getting to temp this may be just a symptom

Cheers,
Nick.

PS: air cleaner assembly off for the pic

[genius]

This is the correct process to tune your choke and fast idle..complete air cleaner unit off and block the vac hose on the manifold that you will need to remove.
1.The choke flap adjustment is done cold, engine off. I remove the hose, bypass the feed into the return, and hook up the garden hose to the lower pipe letting the cold water raise and come out. Just turn the hose on low, no need to have it ejaculating all over the place!
2. Next to the wax pellet, which will be stuffed but may have partial movement, you will see a small screw, flat blade style, with a small nut that a 7mm spanner will fit, and they will have a dab of white paint on them. Undo the lock nut with the 7mm ring end and hold it whilst you clockwise or turn IN the screw until your chock flap GENTLY snaps shut. The flap MUST be closed with MINIMAL resistance (but some resistance) holding it in the closed position. Remember to have your hose running cold water through this process. Once you have done this then lock the nut back into position. You will find that you have probably turned the screw in a fair way and thats just what an old wax pellet will do to you. If you have screwed it in all the way and the choke flap is still NOT Closed then your going to need to free it up or get a new one. (Any carb place can do it or do it yourself).
3. Locate the FAST IDLE SCREW Which is UNDER and JUST AT THE END of where your accelerator cable finishes. You cant see this screw unless you turn the accelerator mechanism to full throtle and just where the circular end of the cable finishes you may see it under the linkage. This is the vital screw you are chasing and is why your engine revs high and the idle screw is as useless as some bitches i know. Back the idle screw off a few turns, Start the engine and have the hose still running cold water,( dont forget the bypass of HOT water delivery back into itself) adjust the screw untill you have 1200-1300 rpm cold. (you may have to practice finding the screw but it but wont be too hard after you know where it is) Switch engine off and hook the hose back up. Start the engine and as it warms up you should see the flap open up and the idle come down...as it gets very low you should THEN SCREW IN the Idle screw (which does nothing but MOVE the accelerator mechanism up opening the b/fly and make your acc cable looser too). Get the correct idle speed you want and your done with the choke adjustments.
Locate the mixture screw, middle base of carb, unscrew it a turn and then screw IT IN SLOWLY until the engine rpm drops. Listen carefully for this drop! Then unscrew it about a quater of a turn, revs will come back a little, and without a gas analyser im saying that should be pretty bloody close. Your accelerator cable should just have a little freeplay in it when your done. Make sure to put the vac hose on again from the a/filter unit.

**MODS: Make this a STICKY if you like.
It's direct from Mits school where I once was a student.

If all fails and your wax pellet is stuffed then just locate the screw UNDER the accelerator mechanism at the end of the cable on the carb and back that screw off untill you have Idle control. The engine may be a bit of a piggie when cold but at least the idle will be fine when its warm.
And of course check your thermostat is correct and working and your water/glycol is clean and you brush your teeth at night and do what mum says.

[H8DAG8]

Shoot what an essay haha, Ok will give this a go this coming weekend or whenever I get time.

Yea I have a feeling the wax pallet is stuffed but we'll see.

Don't forget teeth in the morn too bud,and if only she was still around.

[H8DAG8]

I know with mine even if i pulled the accelerator back with my foot it helped but there was still a fraction more movement if u pushed it back by hand at the carby. Springs are easy to get. I just got mine from autobarn, they will have a few different types, only a few bucks each (im pretty sure the brand of spring where redline). The idle adjustment screw should be set wen ur car is at running temp. I dont know the standard setting point for your tuning screw, but a simple way to get it pretty close to its correct setting is let your engine warm up, adjust your idle screw so the engine revs at 2000rpm (doesnt matter if its a little more than that) then you make very small adjustments to your mixture screw (either in or out as it depends were it is already set) and the engine revs will keep increasing to a point and then start to drop again, or will stay at the same revs. You want to set it at the point where its at its highest before it starts to change, then after that you can take your idle screw back down. Wen i did mine last i screwd the mixture screw almost all the way in (still out enough so that the car would run) so i knew i only had to turn the screw outwards wen setting it. Yer on my galant there is a spring at the carby and at the pedal but im not sure about the sigma. id say u will only need to worry about one on the carby. anyways hope this helps or atleast makes sense haha. it is very easy to do. good luck

Hey mate, tried your one as it was a bit easier and quicker then the one genius suggested lol, and i screwed the mixture screw fully in, then set idle up to 2000revs, then slowly wound out the mixture screw and revs stayed exactly the same until the mixture screw was pretty much (I'm guessing) all the way out, why would that be?

I guess I'll have to do it the proper way which genius suggested lol just wasn't keen on doing it the long way.

But, any idea why the revs would have stayed the same when I was doing it your way though? Oh, and now that the mixture screw has been right in and right out i have NO idea where it should be so I just guessed it and guessed the idle screw fiddling with them both till it was around 800-900 so I'm guessing the mixture will still be way off and it'll be guzzling the gas.

Also, noticed on the way home today (after about a 20min drive) the engine would have obviously been at operating temperature but the temp needle wasn't at the little "cut out" on the gauge where it usually used to sit (last time i noticed) which was the ideal temp. Any reason why this would be happening now all of a sudden? Or I'm guessing all of a sudden, but I know it def used to sit in the little cut out mark.

Thanks heaps guys
Your help is much appreciated and needed as I hate carbys lol

Cheers
Logan

[H8DAG8]

Any1 on here in Auckland, NZ that'd be keen on having a look at it for me?
Could bring a box of beers to get us through it