E85 fuel

[panda]

OK, I'll start a new thread on this subject.
I am of the belief that E85 fuel does produce more power, but requires a heap of fuel to produce it. Fuel mapping needs to be richened up quite significantly, but I don't know what the optimum stoichiometric ratio is for E85. Also engines are reported running cooler because of the richer fuel mix. Has anyone tried this stuff yet ?

[stealth]

mate we are running pure E100 in our engines as it is a class requirment
cant give away to much but
no it doesnt run cooler
no it doesnt even make the same power not even close
no its not just a retune its a full rebuild with different clearances
no its not cheaper
so please dont start thinking its great or you will end up with the
LGP is great crowd and we all know there kidding themselfs
cheers stealth

[panda]

So E100 sucks, but what about E85. I'm trying to learn more about this stuff as I don't have any personal experience with it yet, only being told conflicting stories.

[Sigmaproject]

Petrol 14.7
E85 9.7
Going to throw a lot of A/F ratios out of whack

[Astron Boy]

There was a huge as discussion/ debate on MCA about E85.
I can refer a person here who actually has a company based around the stuff if you want..
or link you to the MCA thread...

[MATNES]

here is a link to a discusion about E85
http://www.bmsc.com.au/forums/rallying- ... -fuel.html
just scroll down to post 5........grab a bite to eat and a drink it is a long post

MATT

[COBWBS]

Wat the hell is E85?

Like that cheap shit u can get from the servo's? The pump is green yeah??


Scott

[Frosty]

it's an ethanol blend.

supposedly cheaper AND provides more horsepower. and I hear it can make pigs fly too.

[amgis_obrut]

theres a fair few people in my town that use E85 or E100 in their performance cars as its easy and cheap to get here

Stealth of course E100 wont make the same power per liter as petrol no race fuel will (in a production engine)

though E100 will make more power per liter than methanol and nitromethane

[Superscan811]

it's an ethanol blend.

supposedly cheaper AND provides more horsepower. and I hear it can make pigs fly too.

Close, but not quite.


Cheaper, Renewable, Burns cleaner.

Not as "energy dense" as petrol, ie:you need to use more to produce the same ammount of power, but because it can be made from plants, it won't run out untill the sun explodes.

BTW: Not sure whether the police are using it in aircraft.

Cheers.

[cheaterparts]

mate we are running pure E100
cheers stealth

E100 with orange juice is the go no alco pop tax

I'm going with E85 with the new build its sort of a stepping stone to the turbo engine
what a few guys running IPRA have found - and a lot with the turbo engines is that the power did go up a bit they could screw a bit more timing in , but the biggest thing is that the E85 cools the charge so there is a bit more safety margen before detionation
of cause we have to run a 36 mm restrictor in the front of the turbo a bit like the rally guys .
and when you come max flow on the restrictor the turbo realy puts some heat into the charge
it seems that the special commercial race fuels like ELF will make more power than the E85 but between $ 5.00 - $ 8.00 for ELF and between $ 1.00 - $ 2.00 for E85

I was just going to lift the comp a bit on the astron to 13:1 which isn't a lot more than I would run with this cam on petrol
I also did the sums and it looks like I'll have to run 440 cc injectors with the quads
other that that it was just getting std cheater build

[Billsy]

im no expert on it, but in my legacy and the sigma you can throw timing at it and it does go better than straight 98. its similar to 102 race fuel that i used once.
so if you can retune the ign and fuel then its worth it in my view, although the economy goes to complete crap.

not as good as VP109 though, that stuff is the sh!t

[stealth]

hey billsy buy a drum of elf racing fuel now thats shit it will out hp C16
anyway there are more problems to come as E85 works great in your std
application engine because most engines are badly tuned
now cheater your gunna run into a huge learning curve when you try
to run 13 to 1 but im shore a capable man such as your self will work things out
but i spent nearly 4 months over end of last year and start of this year
dyno running engine after engine trying to make good power and something that
would hold together ON E100 in the end ,hole new engining specs uses 36.3% more
and 80hp down but yes runns 4 degres cooler
long story short tread carfully all!
ps cheater methenol taste better than e100 specially with oj ;)
but NOS is better no after taste
cheers stealth

[Sigmaproject]

Even E10 is bad news for guys running pre-EFI, such as myself.

It is bad news for rubber and brass which are in our carby and fuel system.
It attacks rubber and corrodes brass

Also tends to give the fuel system a bit of a clean out, so regular fuel filter changes needed for a while after changing over.

[cheaterparts]

now cheater your gunna run into a huge learning curve when you try
to run 13 to 1 but im shore a capable man such as your self will work things out
but i spent nearly 4 months over end of last year and start of this year
dyno running engine after engine trying to make good power and something that
would hold together ON E100 in the end ,hole new engining specs uses 36.3% more
and 80hp down but yes runns 4 degres cooler
long story short tread carfully all!

cheers stealth

13:1 comp should be ok with the cam running 101 deg over lap I would run BP98 with close to 12:1
and my rough sums for injector size was that there should be enough flow for 250 Hp with 440 cc injectors that was working on 33 % more fuel than petrol
the rest should tune up with a little time on the dyno - of cause there maybe surprises in mapping the ECU time will tell
one thing I'm not sure on as yet is if the header should have bigger pipes the astron atm has 1 3/4" primarys - I was thinking 1 7/8" might be better

I wont to learn a bit before turboing the sigma which by the way is a bigger learning curve
because of the restrictor we must use for the class
the guys that have played restrictor/turbo and E85 seam to be happy with the results

[amgis_obrut]

My new BBf engine will be an E85 engine 12.5:1 comp .750 lift roller Rob Mix 1150 cfm E85 carb and so on should be close to 700 @ the engine

E85 is too new in aus for people to know what to do with it, talk to the yanks about it and you'll find the right info they have been racing with for years

[mic_77]

Just my 2 cents about E85 I had my car tuned on it friday night and yes you make more power and yes the car runs cooler and yes you use a lot more and yes you need an oversized fuel system to run it but the most impressive part of it is the raise in torque so much so that my car is now turning the tyres hard out of the hole.


cheers Mic

[cheaterparts]

Just my 2 cents about E85 I had my car tuned on it friday night and yes you make more power and yes the car runs cooler and yes you use a lot more and yes you need an oversized fuel system to run it but the most impressive part of it is the raise in torque so much so that my car is now turning the tyres hard out of the hole.


cheers Mic

have you before and after dyno graphs

[mic_77]

Yes I do but they are at different boost levels as we were going for max power not a comparison we knew that we would get more out of the E85 than 98. We also had a few issues with the ecu only having a 2 bar map sensor so it was tuned to 24.5psi and that was 350whp just to be safe. The power peaked at 367.3whp on 26psi but it maxed out the 880cc injectors will be changing to 1000cc injectors to see the full potential of this bottom end plus a change to a trans braked c4 for more predictable launches .


cheers Mic

[Sigmaproject]

Kids , Dont try this at home

Unless you have a fuel system that has been designed and tuned to tolerate e85 you will have big problems.

[mic_77]

Exactly I had to fit another 044 pump before I went on the dyno so I now have approx 1400hp fuel flow then minus about 30% for E85 and that would be it for the pumps around the 1000hp@flywheel mark.


cheers Mic

[rotamotive]

aloy of the boys down here in melbourne are toying with e85, my friend mic, who has the white ke corolla in zoom a few months back with the sr20 engine and c10, made 40 kws at wheels more just from running e85, same oost levels and dyno, then they wound it up, and timming and it made 60 kws more, he now races it with e85 only on street and track and he went from 9.60 144 to 9.3 148, just from running e85.
ill post a pic of it up soon.

Yeah Stix loves the stuff,he just doesnt like the drive to get it...
We have ran & will be running a few engines on it in the near future... Will let you know how they all perform.
Cheers

[Billsy]

guys, where can you get this in melbourne?
im heading over on the long weekend and may need some

[stealth]

cant you buy it from any decent caltex servo?
cause we can here on the rainy (gold)coast
cheers stealth

[Sigmaproject]

Just to run E10 on a regular basis your fuel system had to be "Ethanol tolerent" After searching thru hundreds of pages on the net E10 tolerant seems to mean:

No alloy
No rubber
No copper or brass
Retune

If you just want to toy with it 1 tankfull of E10 will not do any harm.

But E 85 need a totally purpose built fuel delivery system.

[cheaterparts]

guys, where can you get this in melbourne?
im heading over on the long weekend and may need some

United @ Hoppers Crossing last time I checked it was worth about $ 1.00 per Lt
it seams that more united servos will have it in time

or I intend to use it but a mate playing Fujitsu Supertaxis gets his in 44 gal drums
I'll get it through his suppy . Its cost a bit more that way but thats life

cheater